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Thought I might be interested in a PCC to play with. Don’t have a clue as to what I would buy looks like Sig build’s the MPX in pcc configuration at $1800-$2000. Rock river about $900-$1200. Any suggestions or input appreciated, thanks, Pat
 
Posts: 268 | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I wanna go home
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HK and B&T make some nice PCC they are pricy but run like a singer sewing machine.
 
Posts: 1137 | Location: Pa | Registered: December 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
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If you can shoot one first, that's your best bet to see what you like.

I didn't like the MPX when I saw it but a Sig employee talked me into shooting it. After I ran 30 rounds through it, I bought one immediately.

I let everyone in my weekly shooting group shoot a few rounds through it and 2 of them ended up buying one for themselves.
 
Posts: 8993 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My friend has a MPX shorty, well made. Will look at Hk &Bt. Thanks
 
Posts: 268 | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
high tides
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look at Fox Trot Mike's offerings. Good quality and performance.



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 17270 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I run A CMMG but Foxtrot Mike does have some nice offerings.


Rom 13:4 If you do evil, be afraid. For he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
 
Posts: 579 | Location: NW Ohio but Montana is always home. | Registered: September 30, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hard to beat a CZ Scorpion. MPX and HK are expensive, and CMMG has had problems with ejector springs failing in their RDB 9mm bolts.

A lot depends on what’s most important to you. Price? Recoil? Suitability for suppressor use? Aftermarket? Almost all of the options will put 9mm rounds downrange.
 
Posts: 2791 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
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PSA AKV will likely be my next.
I have home built 9mm and 10mm ARs currently.


————————————————
I think that when those dark voices start calling our name in the back of our head we need to remind those voices who we belong to!
Andrew Schwab - Project 86
 
Posts: 23618 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
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The MPX is excellent if you can afford it. It's a short-stroke pistol system, which is head and shoulders above the blowbacks for reliability and shoot ability (much flatter and softer recoil impulse). A co-worker has one, and it's extremely well made and reliable.

I have a 16" CMMG radially-delayed blowback AR which in my experience falls somewhere in between the MPX and a blowback AR on the shootability scale, but it is a bit lighter and better balanced than my co-worker's MPX, and cost me about half as much. It did eat an ejector pin and spring after about 1000 rounds, but CMMG sent me new parts for free, along with bolt tuning weights. I installed the appropriate weight, but haven't had enough ammo to burn to see if it did anything for the longevity of the ejector spring (I'm about 500 rounds in at this point with no issues). Even if I end up having to replace the ejector spring every 1000 rounds as a maintenance item, I'll still keep the rifle. It's not a difficult thing to do, the parts are cheap, and other than that one issue the gun has been fantastic.

One thing I will not do is buy another straight-blowback operated rifle. I've had a few, and was never happy with any of them.
 
Posts: 5898 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Man of few words

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There are so many out there now.

I have:

H&K USC (converted to UMP) X2 - 45 ACP
Kel Tec Sub 2000 - 9mm
AR15 7.5" pistol - 9mm
Ruger PC9 - 9mm

I like each one of mine for different reasons. The Kel Tec is the cheapest at $400 (when I bought it) and the USC $1,500 but I put over $500 in parts + labor in each one and now have 2 carbines that I spent over $2,500 on (for each one.)

The Ruger PC9 was only $600 and is a take-down model. If I were to have to keep only one I would probably keep my USC/UMP's but the mags are super expensive. The Ruger uses Glock mags and Glock mags are plentiful and can be had for fairly cheap.
 
Posts: 7827 | Location: NE Ohio | Registered: July 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm pretty sure I have most of the options. Dwill104 has the right theme meaning that these go from dirt cheap to silly expensive with lots of stops in between. With all kind of different strengths and weaknesses.
And people have all kind of idiosyncrasy like some didn't like the recoil impulse of the blowback guns, for example, 92fstech says he won't buy one for example. It doesn't happen to bother me so I don't relate. But for any real advice that might match what you are looking for some more inputs on what's important to you are needed.
If you just want to get started I think the best all around option would be a glock lower AR9.
Me personally my favorite to shoot happens to be the B&T APC but its silly expensive.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10071 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
high tides
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I have never understood the "recoil impulse"
argument of an AR in 9mm.
From day one it just seemed like an AR that shoots a mildish pistol caliber round to me. Shoulder shrug. Razz



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 17270 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a Glock pattern Sub2000, and am overly pleased with it. I have a few hundred rounds through it and zero malfunctions. I bought it to be a backpack gun that lives in the trunk of my car. 100% happy with my purchase.

I bought CZ Scorpion with the short barrel and SB Tactical side folding stock setup. I added a few HB Industries accessories, and a Trijicon RMO on top. Very happy with it. I put a few hundred rounds through it as well, no issues at all. Hitting a 12” gong at 100 yards is easy! Recoil was more than the Keltec in my opinion.

I always wanted a MPX, but two things always scared me off. One was the price, the other was the price of mags. Mags are $50-65, I'm a mag whore. The idea of spending $600 or so on magazines was not an option. One day I stopped at Bud’s and there was one on the rental rack. A $20 rental fee and a box of 9mm changed my mind. I sold my CZ to my son in law (he loves it) and bought an 8” MPX. There’s no comparison really. It’s way more money, but in my opinion it’s worth it. Feels better, looks better, wayyyy less recoil. No interest in trying anything else, it’s a keeper.





10mm lays waste to entire cities, cuts through diamonds and will tear Superman a new asshole. - Parabellum

Sex offenders can not be rehabilitated. It's in their wiring. They should not be released back into the general public. On the other hand they should not be warehoused either. I think they should be executed.....Spectre

When someone tries to kill you, it doesn't matter how they are doing it. You're in mortal danger, and it's time to try to kill them back.

Arc.
___

Kill every last one of these goddamned animals. We need a president with balls. We need leadership. We should be carpet bombing these barbarians wherever we find them, and we should be looking for them 24/7. We have to unleash Hell upon them. They understand nothing but death, so death is what we should bring them, wholesale.... Para

I left "practical" behind many years ago. It was covered with my first Glock 19. (Fredward)
 
Posts: 2339 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: July 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
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quote:
Originally posted by old rugged cross:
I have never understood the "recoil impulse"
argument of an AR in 9mm.
From day one it just seemed like an AR that shoots a mildish pistol caliber round to me. Shoulder shrug. Razz


It's not that the recoil is unmanageable or harsh...it's just that it's more significant than it ought to be for a 9mm. Part of the appeal of a PCC is the ability to deliver rapid follow-up shots with minimal disturbance of the sights, and that's not easy to do with that heavy blowback bolt and buffer bouncing back and forth in there. A delayed or locked action reduces the need for all that reciprocating mass, and makes it easier to stay on the sights under recoil.

The other big benefit to the RDB system is the fact that it offers the same out of battery protection as a regular DI AR. The bolt has to cam into the locking lugs of the barrel extension in order to allow the firing pin to strike the primer. You don't get this with a straight blowback AR, and the nature of running a short 9mm pistol case in an action designed for a .223 rifle cartridge creates a number of issues of its own. A short stroking bolt can result in a sear that doesn't reset and hammer follow and uncontrolled doubling...which is something I experienced with my PSA gun. I also had a few out of battery discharges, which thankfully is less of an event in 9mm than it would be in .223, but it's still no fun to have happen right there by your face.

To each his own, but I've been soured on blowback by experience. It's not a good system in an AR. Some of the purpose built guns are better, but I still prefer some kind of delayed or locking action.
 
Posts: 5898 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
If you can shoot one first, that's your best bet to see what you like.

I didn't like the MPX when I saw it but a Sig employee talked me into shooting it. After I ran 30 rounds through it, I bought one immediately.

I let everyone in my weekly shooting group shoot a few rounds through it and 2 of them ended up buying one for themselves.


Everyone I lets shoot my MPX gets a huge grin on their face. Some usually stop mid mag and just look back and me grinning. It's the most fun gun I have. Zero failures and I've probably put 1K+ through it easily.




Train how you intend to Fight

Remember - Training is not sparring. Sparring is not fighting. Fighting is not combat.
 
Posts: 8457 | Location: Woodstock, GA | Registered: August 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
PSA AKV will likely be my next.
I have home built 9mm and 10mm ARs currently.


I recently picked up one of these. Very reliable shooter and light trigger, BUT I was getting 2-3 round bumpfires when trying to shoot very slowly for utmost accuracy. Since my purchase, I've seen a YouTube video on this issue and even read about it here at SF.

I gave the gun to my gunsmith to fix and PSA has a new trigger group on the way. Very good customer service so far and I'm hoping the new trigger group takes care of the issue. I'm also considering an ALG trigger replacement if I'm unsatisfied with the new OEM trigger.

I've got a couple of other PCCs that I've SBR'd. These include a PTR (HK clone), an AR9 made by a local company called "Battle Tested Equipment" ("BTE"), and a B&T GHM9 Compact. The HK (MP5 semi-auto) clone is quite accurate and has very little perceived recoil, but the trigger is quite long and reminiscent of a good DA revolver. The AR9 and GHM9 have very good, short, trigger pulls with the GHM9 having the least degree of muzzle rise.


"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
 
Posts: 9762 | Location: The Free State of Arizona | Registered: June 13, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Res ipsa loquitur
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I own a 922r SBR Scorpion. I also have a fair amount of trigger time with full auto MP5s and the MPX. And, the Beretta Cx4 Storm (semi only). The MP5 was the most polished or refined of the group. But, for a semi-auto, I see no value in the HK or the SIG over a Scorpion. The Beretta is fun but large (although you can buy a 92 series and use the same magazines). For value, quality, and the ability to customize it, I'd buy the new CZ Scorpion with the redesigned controls.


__________________________

 
Posts: 11794 | Registered: October 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Music's over turn
out the lights
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I think I’m going to go ahead and SBR this little guy I really enjoy it. BCM angled for grip makes this much more comfortable.



David W.

Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud. -Sophocles
 
Posts: 3578 | Location: Winston Salem, N.C. | Registered: May 30, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
high tides
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I have not had any issue's with my Fox Trot Mike's AR9. They make a very nice, high quality unit and
I have no problems making follow up shots with it. I trust it implicitly.

Plus their pricing is good as well.



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 17270 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for a lot ideas. Going to try a couple at some steel shoots I go to. Will see what happens. Thanks again
 
Posts: 268 | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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