quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:

Do you keep that AR with the lights and stuff on it at the ready at all times or is it sitting in a safe like mine do?

I'm just an average joe ... now getting on in years and trying to relate some of my experience and if ya'll wanna hang lights and lasers and IR identifiers and do-dads all over your AR's ... be my guest! It's no skin off my ass! IMHO its just not money well spent ... but it's your money!

Not always, but when we had that murderer doing home invasion on the loose a couple of weeks ago, within 5 miles of my house, yes a loaded AR-15 was right next to me. Yes it had some "doodads", like an Aimpoint T-2, X300U on it, along with optional night vision.

I prefer not to have to do the inevitable flail-x to get a rifle together at my house. There are two choices, clip the NVD on, or not.

Just because I haven't been in a gun battle, at night, doesn't mean I'm totally fucked if that VERY unlikely scenario arises. Most of my night shooting is at ferel hogs these days, but that AR with the doodads works pretty well on them, too.

I hardly think an optic, white light, and back-up Irons, maybe some kind of forward grip (traditional, afg, handstop) could be considered 'hanging doodads all over a rifle'. For a fighting rifle, that kind of optic/light/BUIS combo is the bare minimum IMO. Forward grip optional, but I prefer shooting with one.

Mine is my primary HD weapon, at the bedside locked open with a full mag, requiring the bolt to be released before she's ready to go.

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:

quote:

Originally posted by PPGMD:

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:
It took me years to realize that, while these do-dads are cool, I don't use light's, lasers and all the other things that market engineers and designers have come up with to separate me from my money.

Maybe it would be different if I was younger, or lived on a farm and needed to take out fox or coyote's from killing my livestock ... or a night hunter (we call'um poachers) and needed infrared or thermal detection ... or if I was a hit-man, but in both the John Wick movies he didn't use any of that stuff.

Except those aren't the only reason to have a light on your rifle. IMO (and in the opinion of people with BTDT resumes) a light is required on a defensive rifle. Sure if all you do is go shoot on the range a light is probably useless.

I even put one of the rifle that my mom got. This is her rifle:

That must be some flashlight if you can see what is beyond your target ... the number 1 rule in safe gun handling, know your target and what is beyond it.

And besides that ... a flash light just lets the bad guys know where to shoot.

So a bad guy invades your house you're going to just start shooting where you think you hear movement? Your choices are your choices, but some people do like to know who they are shooting at. If it's just an AR you take to the range, I agree there is no point, but a defensive rifle is a different story. Actually it took me years to see the value of this, I was of the old school and always figured a separate flashlight would be enough. I've since changed that opinion, especially as my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, especially as I first wake up

PPGMD ... please don't think I'm picking on you because I'm not ... and I think its great that your mother is willing to defend herself and now has the means to do so.

My eyes aren't as good as they used to be either but my eyes are going to be as good or better than someone that has broke into my house in the middle of the night (assuming its night if its dark) plus I have the added advantage of being familiar with my house, as I'm sure most people are ... Like most people I can go anywhere in my house in total darkness, even half asleep and in the event someone does come in, uninvited they will be face to face with a 45 (of which there are a few around the house in case of a home invasion; but not a bunch of 30"+ boom sticks ... and knowing how to clear a room, it won't be waving around out in front of me like a carbine/long gun will. I understand defending your home but IMHO a rifle just isn't something you grab in the middle of the night(or shotgun, no matter what Joe Biden says).

Anyone that wants to criticize my thoughts on how I defend my home is welcome to, I'm done defending myself in this thread, I was only sharing my thoughts and experience on adding do-dads to an AR ... plus we have gotten a long way from the OP's question ... and I accept partial responsibility for that!

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:
So that raises another question ...

... how many here have been in gun battles at night?

1 ... maybe 2 that are in law enforcement?

I am willing to be that number is much higher than you think. A vast majority of confrontational crime happens at night. Granted a vast majority of them end with no shots fired.

quote:

Or is it just more common in other parts of the country to be in gun battles that strangely never get reported on by the media?

Based on the yearly FBI crime report, self defense shootings are about as common as law enforcement shootings. But also like law enforcement what is never reported is how often the mere presence of a gun ends the confrontation.

quote:

Do you keep that AR with the lights and stuff on it at the ready at all times or is it sitting in a safe like mine do?

Depends on the situation. But it does get locked up every morning.

quote:

I'm just an average joe ... now getting on in years and trying to relate some of my experience and if ya'll wanna hang lights and lasers and IR identifiers and do-dads all over your AR's ... be my guest! It's no skin off my ass! IMHO its just not money well spent ... but it's your money!

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, that doesn't mean that their opinion is necessarily correct.

quote:

they will be face to face with a 45 (of which there are a few around the house in case of a home invasion; but not a bunch of 30"+ boom sticks

Until someone gets in uninvited without you waking up in the middle of the night and stumbles across one or two of these 45s you have laying around.

Flawed logic throughout. But you won't listen to what anyone has to say on the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:
My eyes aren't as good as they used to be either but my eyes are going to be as good or better than someone that has broke into my house in the middle of the night (assuming its night if its dark) plus I have the added advantage of being familiar with my house, as I'm sure most people are ... Like most people I can go anywhere in my house in total darkness, even half asleep and in the event someone does come in, uninvited they will be face to face with a 45 (of which there are a few around the house in case of a home invasion; but not a bunch of 30"+ boom sticks ... and knowing how to clear a room, it won't be waving around out in front of me like a carbine/long gun will. I understand defending your home but IMHO a rifle just isn't something you grab in the middle of the night(or shotgun, no matter what Joe Biden says).

This shows your ignorance, the carbine is actually nearly the same deployed length as a pistol. Particularly if it is a SBR. The difference is that the carbine is deployed off the shoulder while a pistol is held out as arms length. And no I'm not worried about losing my SBR to a police lock up, I have a half dozen. I can spare one to a police lock up for a couple of years.

quote:

The difference is that the carbine is deployed off the shoulder while a pistol is held out as arms length.

For CQB, why on earth would you hold a pistol out at arms length?

... OK ... I'm done!

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:
And besides that ... a flash light just lets the bad guys know where to shoot.

I suppose it's all for the best that you completely fail to recognize the great utility of a WML. Given this comment of yours, it's apparent you don't have a clue how these lights can be used effectively and safely.

Y'know, hanging a light off of a rifle, shotgun or pistol does not cause the shooter to suddenly grow stupid. WML or no, my common sense is intact, and I know when it's useful to activate a WML and I know when it's a bad idea.

Every rifle and most pistols I use for self defense have a WML mounted. If you don't know how to use these tools, though, I suppose you should stay away from them.
One thing I know to a certainty- I can't activate a light that does not exist. For those of you who can think straight and walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, a WML may very well save your life one day.

I don't know which thread locker Magpul is putting on their screws. It looks tan (to me). What is that? Loctite 232? Whatever it is, it's hard enough that the screws have to be prepped before they can be used. The T-nut needs to be screwed down once or twice, and then you will have the right balance of friction to allow the nut and screw to turn together, but not so much friction that you can't get the nut onto the screw more than a half turn.

My solution for the screws that came with an M-Lok mount but without thread locker applied was to use Vibra-Tite VC-3, which is rubbery, rather than rock hard. Works great.

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:

quote:

The difference is that the carbine is deployed off the shoulder while a pistol is held out as arms length.

For CQB, why on earth would you hold a pistol out at arms length?

Because you want to hit what you're aiming at?

quote:

Originally posted by Oregon:

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:

quote:

The difference is that the carbine is deployed off the shoulder while a pistol is held out as arms length.

For CQB, why on earth would you hold a pistol out at arms length?

Because you want to hit what you're aiming at?

The hell you say!

Oregon must be another of the forum's resident hit-men.

Normal folks apparently don't need sights either. Or a proper grip/stance.

I'm leaning towards KeyMod only because the rail covers BCM offer cover them up and keep the forearm slender.

I know people are trying to figure out if one will 'win' and the other will go away. But since both are open sourced for all, I don't think either will go the way of the dodo and people stuck with rails and a few add ons no one else wants or worse: support.

quote:

Originally posted by Oregon:

quote:

Originally posted by kimberkid:
For CQB, why on earth would you hold a pistol out at arms length?

Because you want to hit what you're aiming at?

I have several KMR-A BCM uppers and I like the slender lines and as they come with one rail, it usually fits what I want to put on it.

I have one MLOK equipped rail on a SCAR 17 - I like it too and have seen what Para is talking about when it comes to rail installations. Its a nice rail but not an exact comparison between the KMR AR rails I have.

In the end, I don't see it as a "gotta have one over the other". If the rail is (1) ergonomic for you and (2) able to have "doodads" you deem appropriate mounted on it, go for it. Sure it might help swapping things if you have all one or the other, but most of the rails are pretty inexpensive, so I don't see it as a big deal.

YMMV.

And if you don't like it, Q LLC and H&K are developing proprietary rails for the Fix and 433, and I'm sure there will be AR rails following that.

I've got a Midwest SSK12G2 on the BCM BFH upper I built my rifle with. I love it, it's nice and narrow and has little dimples that make it relatively ergonomic to hold onto. It's also pretty lightweight.

Like Rhino said, the main thing is how they feel in the hand, other than that modularity and accessory availability are pretty much equal.

I have two rifles with M-Lok rails. Both are Geissele Mk 8 13" over 16" midlength barrels. In terms of M-Lok usage, I have the following attached on both rifles: a 3 slot section of rail all the way forward at the 6 o'clock position, to attach my Atlas bipod; an Arisaka light mount, 45 degree offset, mounted a the 9 o'clock position (left side) for a Surefire Scout light; Magpul handstop kit mounted at the 6 o'clock position. I don't normally care for VFGs or handstops on my handguards but this works perfectly to index my support hand for the WML. Works really well and feels really great.
Additionally, I have Magpul Type 2 rail covers over every open M-Lok slot at the 3,6, and 9 o'clock positions. On the Picatinny rail, I have a Magpul Pro front sight and the rest of the rail is covered in Larue clips.

The Geissele rail has QD swivel sockets at the rear on each side and I use the left side socket for my sling, but if I didn;'t want the socket in that position, there are a ton of M-Lok QD sockets out there.

Also, you don't want to overtighten this stuff. The torgue spec for M-Lok has a max of 35 inch-pounds. When you tighten down the nut, it cams into the rail and stops at 90 degrees. If you overtighten it, the T-nut will bite into the rail. Axe me how I know this.
So, if you don't have a torque wrench, you'll want to err on the side of caution when attaching stuff..

I haven't tried the keymod but am very happy with the m lok.