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I read through most of the responses and skimmed the remaining so forgive me if this is a repeat. I own an LMT MWS 308 and a LaRue PredatOBR 7.62. I have the CL 18” barrel for the LMT and the 20” Stainless barrel. I find the Stainless to be more accurate and consistent and with handholds at short range which, I define as being inside 400 yards, the rifle is capable of .5 MOA. Important to note that this is a sample size of 1 rifle… It shoots FGMM 168 and 175 grain factory ammo under 1 MOA as well. I am more of a bolt gun shooter at distances further than 500 yards and can’t really speak to the LMT’s accuracy at that range or beyond. If you shoot suppressed, the rifle will be terribly overgassed. You could change out the gas system for an adjustable one but unless you have specialized tooling at your house/shop, that won’t be easy. The gas system is proprietary. Perhaps newer versions have more options. The rifle shoots great and other than the gas system, I have nothing but high praise. The PredatOBR seemed like the perfect .308 gas gun to me. I have both the 16” barrel and the 20” barrel. The gas system is adjustable and works extremely well both suppressed and not. I may be the only one who has had this problem but if you are a hand loader, beware. Both of my barrels have LaRue’s XTRAXN chamber. This means the chamber is lightly spiral fluted to aid in spent brass extraction. Before adding annealing to my brass prep routine, I was able to reload the brass once with either barrel and the second reload, regardless of the type of lube or brand/type or sizing die, would stick the case in the die. Annealing reduces this somewhat but not completely. I realize these are only two of your choices but between the two, I found the LMT to be more accurate — again, small sample size. If I were only shooting factory ammo and desired to shoot suppressed, I’d pick the PredatOBR. If you are a hand loader, have little need to shoot suppressed and prioritize accuracy, I would recommend the LMT with the stainless steel barrel. You have a great and fun choice in front of you. Hope this helped a little, Henryrifle | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
To echo your point, everything I've seen of the Sig gen 2 DMR it shoots really really well. I can talk myself into it any given day but the price and fact it's being discontinued force me in other directions. But I don't think it's not worth it. I don't like the look of the handguard but I'll get over that yesterday if it performs like I want. | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
Really appreciate the feedback sir. These may only be 2 on my list but they are 2 of the most serious contenders. My experience on the OBR before 2010 pretty much sold me on it. I'm just not sure the PredatOBR is in the same league. Lotta conflicting information. I don't care about an adjustable gasblock because I'm trying to maximize the reliability, and don't have a 308 can. Severely burnt out on NFA nonsense. The Noveske kinda puts me at ease because the Switchblock has a track record. I'd probably never touch it, same as my Sig and SCAR. Currently don't reload either but I've got a stockpile of brass for "someday." (That might be never, especially for 308.) I've read the LMT is over gassed suppressed. I like this personally. I won't use it suppressed. I like reliability and with the AR10 something like this rifle puts my mind at ease. I trust LMT. I also love the barrel change options. If the lightweight stainless barrels shoot like you're saying the other ones do this is probably the move. The single and only issue I ever had with it was how heavy it was back in the stone age when I first picked one up. I can get over that in a hurry if the performance is there. Great and fun choice huh? I'm not so sure of that. I've done unspeakable things to even get to this position, and son of a bitch this decision is downright daunting. One day this, next day that. And none of them are reasonably priced, save the RR maybe. But I'm privileged to be in this position, and it's really not that serious. I tell the old lady I think the Noveske is leading the pack and she looks at me like I have 3 eyes. "How much is that?" Thanks again for the first hand feedback. Happy Easter to you and yours. | |||
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I have shot(not owned) most of the brands mentioned. I really like the POF builds, but only shot out to 300 yds. This post is timely as I have several RRA guns and components that have been stellar. Their new .308 looks very interesting, I'm following this all before I settle on the one for me. I'm leaning toward a quality barrel maker, build the rest to suit me. A 6.5 CM is also very tempting after shooting a friends 20" SS rifle....hot damn fine shooter. | |||
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Black Rain + Krieger in 6.5CM  Black Rain + Bartlein in 6CM  Regardless of brand, it will take a really good rifle to hang with these two. The barrel and its chamber are the primary driving factors of accuracy. You stated in your first post that wanted an accurate AR10. Determine which AR10 manufacturers/assemblers use barrels in the league of Krieger and Bartlein. | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
If memory serves Rock River barres are made by Wilson. I want to get a phone call into them to ask some questions about that new one. Noveske Stainless barrels I forgot but I'm trusting the brand. LMT makes their own I think. Larue also, but used to have Lothar-Walther. Those are good. Out of curiosity Fritz what are those builds running you? | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
Yep same experience for me. Rock River ATH performs better than they say it will. It's amazing. I like the idea of building a 6.5 gas gun to be long range. | |||
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Member |
I have an LMT MWS 16" an OBR and a Predat OBR. My most accurate of the 3 is the OBR with the Lothar-Walter barrel. | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
What barrel is on your LMT? | |||
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IF I get a check from .gov for the virus stuff it will be used as a downpayment on a GAP-10. I've been wanting one since they were released a number of years ago ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Live today as if it may be your last and learn today as if you will live forever | |||
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LIBERTATEM DEFENDIMUS |
In my opinion, I think it comes down to the following considerations: Gilt edge accuracy - Always Consider 6.5 Creedmore over .308. Custom Build using specialized components OR Turn Key options like GAP-10G2 & JP Enterprise. Factory Military Equivalent Options - If available, consider 6.5 Creedmore otherwise .308 SCAR 20/17, KAC SR-25, LMT, HK-MR762A1 (though 16" barrel may be limiting at extended ranges) Bargain Options - S&W M&P Performance Center (great reviews from users) Good gun for the money. Available in 6.5 Creedomore. | |||
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I picked up the parts over the course of 3 or 4 years, and didn't keep a list of costs. Component prices have increased noticeably for some items. The major parts: Black Rain Ordnance: - Norguard finish for upper receiver, lower receiver, charging handle, BCG - anodized rail and ejection port cover Wilson Combat trigger Magpul PRS stock Krieger or Bartlein/Craddock barrel With little effort you can find these parts for about $2600. With some searching the price drops by $200-300, maybe more. | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
Agreed. And I'm limiting this to the 308 factory options, leaning towards precise. I still have a hard time getting past the Noveske. It seems to be the best of everything which will also deliver the kind of accuracy I want. However it's not an easy conclusion to reach especially with Laue and LMT out there. HK as well but the proprietary mags anger me. Knights is just too far north on the price tag. Used 4K is about as good as it gets. Already checked the SCAR box or I'd be after that. SBRing the SCAR keeps me up at night though. Would love that but hate NFA nonsense. | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
Norguard finish I gotta check that out. It looks nice. Slick. So that's about what I figured it would be. In the future when I enter the 6.5 or 260 world I aim to go down this road. Bartlein spoiled me in the past and I'll probably have to go that route again. I want this rifle to shoot the same 168 FGMM as all the others, wrapping up my 308 stuff. (until the FAL variant addiction kicks in again dammit.) | |||
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Is there going to be a rifle purchased in some fashion after all this? “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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I have owned a Larue OBR, LMT MWS, and KAC SR25 APC. All three are excellent in the accuracy department when shooting BH 175gr OTM or FGMM. A couple friends have SCAR17s, and one has a SCAR20. The only other 308 gas gun I would consider is a DD5. Of these I prefer the KAC and LMT. The LMT is the best value and most flexible in having the ability to swap barrels to different calibers. If I was starting from scratch right now, I would buy a LMT MWS MARS-H with 16” chrome lined lightweight barrel (have shot two different rifles, all sub-moa 5 shot groups at 100), add a 6.5cm barrel in the future. The only caveat is that the MWS must have a low back pressure can in order to function reliably. Surefire has been excellent in this regard on the MWS in my experience. The MWS with LW barrel is excellent. The LW barrel is a game changer and still accurate (it’s really a medium weight, more similar to the KAC APC) and if you’re really wanting more accuracy than a CL barrel, they also offer a SS LW barrel. KAC is awesome. It’s the Rolex. At Rolex pricing. My OBR was a laser beam and the gas valve is very well designed. I hated the 20 moa top rail, but that’s not an issue on the PredatOBR. The larue big frames lack the bolt upgrades of KAC, LMT, and DD. But I never noticed any issues with mine. SCAR 17s are very accurate for having such a light barrel. The 20s is very accurate. But spare parts are costly when they are even in stock. The DD5 I have only a little experience with. A friend had one and it was very nice, soft shooting, and accurate. I despise DDs furniture, but that’s easily changed. --------------------------------------------- "AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald | |||
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Norguard is electroless nickel. It seems similar to the NiB coating of some of my AR bolts and BCGs. A person who understands metals and coatings can give a comparison. Bartlein and Krieger make great AR10 barrels in 308. Regardless of caliber, the best barrels produce the best accuracy. I have a bolt action with a 308 Bartlein barrel. It shoots FGMM 168, FGMM 175, and Hornady 168 factory ammo with stellar accuracy. A 308 won't have the practical accuracy of a 6.5mm bore at distance, due to the lower muzzle velocities and lower ballistic coefficients of the 308's bullets. At my altitude, FGMM 308 flies well to longer distances. If you're shooting at sea level, the inherent instability of the SMK 168 bullet at trans-sonic speeds limits its long-distance potential. But at shorter distances, and with the right barrel, it's an accurate bullet in reasonable winds. | |||
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I get confused sometimes due to my age. But I think the OP says he doesn't want to build one, but buy one. So how does one get to buy a black rain ordnance factory gun with a kreiger barrel? or any of the other parts Fritz uses? or does buy one mean that you give a bunch of parts to your favorite gunsmith and he builds it for you ? there are a zillion more options if you don't want a factory gun? “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
All things considered I'm about halfway there if I have to drop 3K with the full wrap up by July for sure. At least with my best laid plans.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slippery Pete, | |||
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| You have cow? I lift cow! |
Correct. Factory built AR10 in 308. There are tons of options to build. Tons. And for precision it's hard to beat this route. | |||
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