Been following this for a while now, good read.
Here are a couple of websites if anyone is interested.

LRI is a great gunsmith and knows his stuff.

https://www.longriflesinc.com

And this article just recently came out.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/...12/14/rifle-caliber/

I've been told or maybe I read it several places... load 30 grains of Varget and a 107SMK in a 6BR. If it doesn't shoot, got a dud barrel.

Loaded the above load for BRA I fire-forming. New Lapua 6BR brass out of the box, primed it, dump some powder in, stick the bullet in pointy end out. Don't have a dud barrel! Fun Stuff! Look forward to see what it will do full BRA load.

Thanks jelrod1 for chambering another laser.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Nikonuser-

Why the Panda over the TLR? The main difference I see is that the Panda is aluminum and the TLR is steel. Is shaving a few ounces to make weight a consideration for the top guys?

Any difference as far as safety with maximum charge loads?

Other doodads to differentiate them, one from the other?

Bruce

At that level, any such action like Kelby, BAT, Stiller, Surgeon, Barnard, Defiance, Big horn and others, will be all excellent.

I've known Jim Kelbly for many years and he supports F-Class competitions. He came to our local range some years back with his big trailer to show off his wares. He goes to the Nationals and sets up a table there most every year and as I said, he supports the competitions.

The Panda in my F-TR rifle is right port, right bolt and does not have an ejector. After over 20,000 rounds and countless dry fires, I sent my bolt back to Kelbly to clean up and inspect; they sent it back a few days later looking better than brand-new. Kelbly has outstanding customer support.

Why no ejector? Is it just to avoid chasing brass?
Is yours a single shot variety or magazine fed?

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Why no ejector? Is it just to avoid chasing brass?
Is yours a single shot variety or magazine fed?

Bruce

If you read my stickied post in the handloading section, you realize that I take great care of my ammo. I baby my brass and I never let it hit the ground or anything. The bolt of my rifle opens with just a finger. It's a super smooth action. There's no need to jerk it or pull on it.

When the bolt is at the rear I just fish out the fired case from the bolt, put it in the ammo box and get the next cartridge and deposit it in the action.

My rifle is a single shot, designed from the ground up as a competition rifle for LR F-TR at which it excels, even if I don't anymore.

The ammo is very much part of the success of the rifle. There's no need or reason to toss it around.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:

Bruh / brah / bro / bra -- not bad, not bad at all. Especially for 25 yards. Any ideas what it will do at 100 yards....

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
Why no ejector? Is it just to avoid chasing brass?
Is yours a single shot variety or magazine fed?

Bruce

If you read my stickied post in the handloading section, you realize that I take great care of my ammo. I baby my brass and I never let it hit the ground or anything. The bolt of my rifle opens with just a finger. It's a super smooth action. There's no need to jerk it or pull on it.

When the bolt is at the rear I just fish out the fired case from the bolt, put it in the ammo box and get the next cartridge and deposit it in the action.

My rifle is a single shot, designed from the ground up as a competition rifle for LR F-TR at which it excels, even if I don't anymore.

The ammo is very much part of the success of the rifle. There's no need or reason to toss it around.

I also shoot LR bench rest. No tossing my brass either.

I have a 6mm bra, bat action, bartlein barrel in a byers laminated stock. NF comp scope, jewel trigger. I use a Randolph front & Edgewood rear.
It's my baby ! At 100 it's a one hole group. I've shot several 1.7'' groups at 600, ibs piedmont, NC.

I don't really know how well I do on average at 1k, but I did get 3rd in group once outta 5 times going to that range.

If you come to piedmont let me know who you are.

Johnny Mayo

During the Obummer administration I bought boatloads of ammo when price cycles were in my favor. Slowly I’m weeding through this selection. I’m pretty done with 223, having narrowed inventory down to the loads that perform best in my AR uppers. A few days ago I jumped back to 308.

My 308 has a 23” Bartlein barrel with 4800 rounds and fortunately it’s still shooting well. It’s accurate with 168 & 175 SMK; 155 & 168 Amax; 155 & 167 & 185 Scenar loads. It does OK with Hornady’s 178 HPBT, but nothing special. I’ve struggled with Sierra TMK, and had limited experience with Hornady ELD-M.

Conditions were interesting. When the sun was out – temps of mid-40s, variable breezes of 2-10 mph from my 9-11 o’clock. When clouds came over the winds decreased and temps dropped to about 40. Three small snow squalls blew through – winds of 10-15 mph from my 2-3 o’clock, with temps in the low 30’s.

My rifle just doesn’t like Black Hills 175 Tipped MK. Groups at 100 yards were 1.37” and 2.01”, with noticeably more horizontal than vertical variation. At 285 yards vertical was slightly less than 1 MOA, but with more horizontal. At 405 yards vertical was only .6 MOA, but again with noticeable horizontal variation.

I had mixed results with BH 168 Tipped MK awhile ago, but it worked better this time. Groups at 100 yards of .53” and .70”. Yanking a shot at 285 yards produced 1 MOA of vertical, however at 405 yards the vertical was .6 and .8 MOA at 405 yards. Horizontal stringing was much lower with 168 TMK than 175 TMK.

Hornady 168 ELD-M did a .48” group at 100 yards. Vertical was .7 MOA at 285 yards. Vertical was .4 and .6 MOA at 405 yards. This is good, and it may become a replacement for 168 Amax, especially if Hornady discontinues the round.

Transitioning to Hornady 155 ELD-M, I found that the barrel needed two fouling rounds of 155 to shoot accurately after shooting 168 ELD-M. Then the 155 ELD did 100 yard groups of .70” and .44”. At 285 yards the group had only .75” of vertical:



Woohoo, that’s 1/4 MOA. At 405 yards the 155’s vertical was .6 MOA.
Just for grins I shot one group of Southwest 155 Scenar at 405 yards – which produced vertical of .8 MOA. I’m on my last couple boxes of Southwest 155, but it has been decent ammo.

Bottom line:
- As I’ve seen before, TMK 175 just isn’t for my rifle
- TMK 168 might work, but Hornday’s 168 ELD is a better bet.
- Hornady 168 ELD shows a lot of promise. Compared to 168 Amax, it flies a little flatter and with a little less wind defection.
- Hornady 155 ELD shows a lot of promise. I now must test muzzle velocity. If MV is high enough, it will allow me to cut 155 Scenar loads from my inventory – and Scenar loads are expensive and somewhat hard to find.

Nice shooting fritz! I couldn't get the TMK's to shoot worth a darn in my 223 AR.

Worked on the load for BRA barrel 1. This 105 VLD load and a Hybrid load are shooting great. Shoot them soon at 850 and 1050, see how they hold up. The VLD's shot are the target version. Will pick up a box of the hunting VLD's. Hunting has a better BC. Shot both hunting and target 130/140 vld's in a 6.5x47, no difference.

31.6/4895/hybrid at 2930-2980 shot well in most of my 26" Dashers. 30.4/4895/vld zipping along at 2960 in the 26" BRA, about as efficient as it gets!

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
I couldn't get the TMK's to shoot worth a darn in my 223 AR.

TMKs in Black Hills loads were 1.5 to 2 MOA in pretty much every barrel for me. IMO Sierra really dropped the ball on their TMK design, for both 223 and 308. The good news for those of us using factory ammo is that SMK ammo (69 grain and 175 grain) is even cheaper now than in the pre-Obama years.

Seems like the BRA is doing everything the Dasher did for you, with just a touch less powder. And likely a noticeable improvement in barrel life.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Nice shooting fritz! I couldn't get the TMK's to shoot worth a darn in my 223 AR.

Worked on the load for BRA barrel 1. This 105 VLD load and a Hybrid load are shooting great. Shoot them soon at 850 and 1050, see how they hold up. The VLD's shot are the target version. Will pick up a box of the hunting VLD's. Hunting has a better BC. Shot both hunting and target 130/140 vld's in a 6.5x47, no difference.

31.6/4895/hybrid at 2930-2980 shot well in most of my 26" Dashers. 30.4/4895/vld zipping along at 2960 in the 26" BRA, about as efficient as it gets!

Offgrid….Your posts are causing me to move on my plan for a 6BRA.... Not good for the wallet.

Are you using the Whidden FL Sizing Die?? Bushing/No Bushing?? What's the recommended seating die??

Thanks in advance.
Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by El Cid 92:


Offgrid….Your posts are causing me to move on my plan for a 6BRA.... Not good for the wallet.

Are you using the Whidden FL Sizing Die?? Bushing/No Bushing?? What's the recommended seating die??

Thanks in advance.
Andrew

Harrels FL bushing die, .267 bushing. Loaded neck OD .2685.

Harrels offers different size 6BRA dies, D1-D4 in .5 increments. The difference is the base diameter size. A very common 6BRA reamer is the "Alex Wheeler" spec'd reamer. Harrels model D3 sizes the brass perfectly.

http://harrellsprec.com/index....ucts/full-length-die

Forster micrometer seater.

What action....?

Offgrid,

Mark at Short Action Customs is offering sizing and seating dies for the 6BRA. His seating die offers a micrometer for precise adjustments. I'm having him chamber my 6BRA and picking up some dies. I'm curious what his reamer dimensions are. A customer shot a .25" group at 600 yards with a SAC built 6BRA recently. That's other world shooting as I only shoot groups when developing loads and only at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Harrels FL bushing die, .267 bushing. Loaded neck OD .2685.

Harrels offers different size 6BRA dies, D1-D4 in .5 increments. The difference is the base diameter size. A very common 6BRA reamer is the "Alex Wheeler" spec'd reamer. Harrels model D3 sizes the brass perfectly.

http://harrellsprec.com/index....ucts/full-length-die

Forster micrometer seater.

What action....?

This will be a new barrel for Surgeon 591 Short Action. It has been built with both 223 Bolt and 308 Bolt. It was built by Moon Roberts at Crescent Customs.

Moon has the JGS "Alex Wheeler" reamer. I plan on using a 1:7.5 Bartlein Med Palma barrel.

Thanks for the info

Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by El Cid 92:

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Harrels FL bushing die, .267 bushing. Loaded neck OD .2685.

Harrels offers different size 6BRA dies, D1-D4 in .5 increments. The difference is the base diameter size. A very common 6BRA reamer is the "Alex Wheeler" spec'd reamer. Harrels model D3 sizes the brass perfectly.

http://harrellsprec.com/index....ucts/full-length-die

Forster micrometer seater.

What action....?

This will be a new barrel for Surgeon 591 Short Action. It has been built with both 223 Bolt and 308 Bolt. It was built by Moon Roberts at Crescent Customs.

Moon has the JGS "Alex Wheeler" reamer. I plan on using a 1:7.5 Bartlein Med Palma barrel.

Thanks for the info

Andrew

My fired cases at the body/shoulder .4600, sized .4580. Base fired .4710, sized .4695.

Shot a few rounds today with 6BRA barrel one at 500yds. Shooting very well, holding vertical extremely well. 1/2" vertical at 500yds, I'll take that First Raton match of 2019 is in 5 weeks can't wait to shoot this thing there.



El Cid 92, 6BRA is easy to tune. Suggest 30.2-30.8 H4895, 105 Hybrids jumped .010 or 105 HVLD jammed .010. Easy Peasy!! Friends load 30.6/Hybrids. Look forward to your report.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Shooting very well, holding vertical extremely well. 1/2" vertical at 500yds

Bro -- nice BRA.

I don't have the tools to do that. A little practice with the 308 today at 405 yards, winds 7-15 mph from my 9 o'clock. Left and center were my last 10 rounds of Corbon 190 SMK -- 1.75" and 1.5", respectively. Right was Black Hills 168 TMK with 5-3/8" vertical. Shows the difference between what works and doesn't in a barrel.

Decided that 168 TMK was adequate for practice of shooting from a tripod. Interestingly, from kneeling at 405 yards the TMK's group vertical was 4-1/4". Then tried it from a standing tripod position -- verticals of 2.5", 4.5", and 5.75". I won't be buying any more TMK ammo, and I'm now down to 20 rounds left in inventory.

In 45 degree temps I got MV of 2,906 from Hornady ELD-M 155. I'll have to run the numbers on ballistics. Even with the wind and a Magnetospeed hanging off the suppressor I got groups of .75" and .76" at 100 yards. OK for the circumstances.

Fritz, you ever get higher than expected velocity from a barrel/ammo combo?

I am reloading Lake City cases with IMR 4895 and Hornady 73gr ELD.

At 590 yards my elevation correction was .3 mils too much, indicating that I am getting nearly Hornady Superformance numbers. My chrono says that I am getting aavg of 2794 fps. With that data plugged into strelok I was hitting .33 MRAD high. Interpolating with Strelok indicates numbers approaching 2900 fps.

I am just at the maximum published load from IMR for this powder. Primers look good. Not completely round but not flat either.

It is a LaRue barrel with a Wylde chamber. Accuracy results suggest that it is about a 1.1 MOA gun with 73s. The last group I fired at 590 yards measured 4.6 inches center to center. But I have plenty of 100 yard groups that are a tick over 1 inch.

quote:

Originally posted by IndianaBoy:
Fritz, you ever get higher than expected velocity from a barrel/ammo combo?

I am reloading Lake City cases with IMR 4895 and Hornady 73gr ELD.

At 590 yards my elevation correction was .3 mils too much, indicating that I am getting nearly Hornady Superformance numbers. My chrono says that I am getting aavg of 2794 fps. With that data plugged into strelok I was hitting .33 MRAD high. Interpolating with Strelok indicates numbers approaching 2900 fps.

I am just at the maximum published load from IMR for this powder. Primers look good. Not completely round but not flat either.

It is a LaRue barrel with a Wylde chamber. Accuracy results suggest that it is about a 1.1 MOA gun with 73s. The last group I fired at 590 yards measured 4.6 inches center to center. But I have plenty of 100 yard groups that are a tick over 1 inch.

I've loaded that bullet for my 20" AR. In my barrel would be way over pressure at 2900. My guess you are not going that fast.

Lots of things can contribute to what you are seeing. Is your sight over bore entered correctly? Shooting position, 100yd zero position vs 590yds position, both prone? If both prone, bi-pod height the same, shooting angle.... I don't mean the angle of the target, are you sloping down hill, target uphill? Wind direction when shooting? Wind direction at that distance will have a greater effect on elevation. Terrain? Shooting in the mountains terrain has a huge effect on elevation. I've taken out as much as a 1 mill past 1500yds with my 7SAUM, no ballistic app will spit out out that info. Shooting at 590yds again can you shoot at 100yds from the same position? If so, shoot at 590 then put a few rounds at 100, you might be surprised by what you see. Do you shoot dot drills?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: offgrid,

I did discover a small error in my height over bore in what I had plugged into strelok. Corrected that and it made a slight difference.


I may have a small error in my 100 yard zero. I need to either shoot some dots or some more groups at 100 yards to be sure. Most it could be off is less than half an inch.


100 and 590 was fired on the same day, some shooting surface. Bipod and rear bag. Slight wind (4mph). Wind was coming from left to right and the barrel is right hand twist.

Slight angle of declination at 590. I don't have a cosine indicator yet but it was less than 5 degrees slope by my eyeball.



Chronograph average speed was 2794. Based on where my hits were at 590 based on that number, I dialed too much and the actual MV was 2858.


In my previous experience with heavy bullets and an 18" barrel, MV was always a tad on the slow side, but about as you would expect.


Looking back through my notes from load development with this barrel, 23.6 grains of IMR 4320 gave me an avg of 2742 fps over my chrono. Accuracy was lackluster so I moved on to another load and eventually another powder. But that seems fast for that load as well.