Less than 1% of folks train to shoot from barriers and actively engage targets.

If I can't go right shoulder then my ass is probably out of the fight.

This training with knives, night vision, shooting left handed and all this stuff isn't worthless, but I can think of about 10 other things to spend time and money on...

First aid, bushcraft, carpentry, etc. Etc.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
I like to be slightly proficient weak side, but not something I do much of these days. Years ago yes, mostly with pistols. Had one in particular I only shot left handed.

I've had occasion in matches to shoot rifles and shotguns weak side, either forced by stage design or by choice. When by choice it was always because I wanted to try something unorthodox. "I know this is a bad idea and will end up being slower and a mistake, but damn I want to see if I can pull this off!"

Ditto. Even a little practice weak side is just plain fun and serves a potential purpose.

All this gun stuff is supposed to be fun first and foremost IMO. Also, everyone likes to say they train for "the unlikely events" yet somehow trying maybe ten or twenty rounds weak sided once in a while isn't aligned with that?

Shot a LR match in Wyoming several years ago, way pre PRS. Natural terrain, shot on and around large rock out cropping. One stage shot between two rock out cropping that created a narrow shooting lane/position, very much like a hallway. All the targets were to the right making it very difficult for a right hand shooter. I shot the stage poorly. A right handed shooter after me simply set up weakside and cleaned the stage. Huh! Chatted with him about how he practiced.... Firearm instructor for some agency and contractors, taught the importance of shooting weakside. I could see that in certain situation as well as a hunting situation. I paid him back a couple stages later. Shot off a large rock, set up the front of my rifle on a bag, tripod leg for rear support, cleaned the stage. "Hey, show me how you set that up using a tripod leg, never seen that before." After that match started practicing weakside with my 22 bolt rifle. At first had a difficult time getting on a target, cheek position, sight alignment, very akward..... Don't know exactly the ratio strong vs weak I've shot since, guessing about 15-20%. Interesting practicing weakside, funky positions then go back to comffy prone, sooooo rock solid, how do I miss?!

A few years later shot a match that was sorta LE inspired. One of the stages shot prone on the ground at the trunk of a squad car and moved to the front of the car, back and forth between the two positions in a tight time. I did well on that stage, my practice paid off Clearly see others who never shot weakside struggle, difficult time getting on the target, clock ticking... time!

fritz's quote is spot on.

"We're driven to do this because shooters just became too good at prone positions with a bipod and rear bag. Match directors needed another way to separate the truly skilled shooters from those who are less capable. Whether or not any of this is applicable to general shooting is an individual view."

One match I've been shooting for several years (prone, one tripod stage) the match director has slowly made it harder. We're now shooting at 5" diamonds at 650-800yds, one shot hit or miss, next target/distance in sometimes very difficult wind. Most of the 22LR matches I'm shooting have at least one weakside stage, often going back between strong and weak. Fun stuff!

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Shit, I'll probably go dual-wielding anyhow, so...

You will, of course, release a flock of doves first as you come out dual wielding. Only way to tactiwoo.

{makes notation in small notebook}

quote:

Originally posted by apprentice:
Also, everyone likes to say they train for "the unlikely events" yet somehow trying maybe ten or twenty rounds weak sided once in a while isn't aligned with that?

The same people who wouldn't imagine trying to shoot their pistols past 25 yards.

"Unlikely events" aside, just missing out how fun it can be shooting them 50-200+ yards.

I can't even hit the target with my good side.

And I don't have a good side.

I guess that makes me ambidextrous. Equally bad on both sides.

I practice with my left side, both AR and Pistol. I don't do the AR well from the left, but I practice.

Our new annual qual course (we've gotten sooo much better than the 30 round course years ago), you qualify first, then there's "High Ready/Low Ready" drills, moving and shooting, and shooting from behind barricades. They'll make you shoot off a few rounds from the weak side in the baracade portion of the class.

Excuse me, please, for carping but WTF is "LARP-ing"?

Live Action Role Playing.

This is or was a thing where folks would play D&D or similar only dressed up and more or less act it out live.

You see lots of folks in the gun community go all tactitard so to speak in their tactical gear who probably have little or no training and we sort of consider that “LARPING”.

Not that I have a bounty of training or experience but I don’t go around all mall ninja’d out either. I am happily low speed and high drag.

I don't expect my reactionary side performance to equal my weapon side, but I still want to be able to respond if cover or the situation dictates.

I wasn't aware that it was all the rage, but I trained with a very, very well known and respected instructor who had us firing from all sorts of off-the-wall positions, including from on our backs while prone. Not something I've done since, but it's nice to know that I could get hits no matter how pretzeled up he made me get.

I'm Left-handed.
I learned to shoot lefty, Uncle Sam convinced me to shoot righty.
I broke my right shoulder and started shooting Lefty.
Shoulder all healed up then tore my left rotator.
Started shooting righty, now I just shoot either way and usually both at a typical range day.
Slightly more right eye dominant, but very little.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
Live Action Role Playing.

This is or was a thing where folks would play D&D or similar only dressed up and more or less act it out live.

You see lots of folks in the gun community go all tactitard so to speak in their tactical gear who probably have little or no training and we sort of consider that “LARPING”.

Not that I have a bounty of training or experience but I don’t go around all mall ninja’d out either. I am happily low speed and high drag.

My 18th level Paladin would crush your low speed-high drag.

Not if he worshipped the same god and …… ehh he’s flexible and chaotic neutral so…..kinda care….kinda don’t. .

We train it for working cover and barricades. Actually worked it into in service training as well. It's useful, i find most people are resistant because they "can't" do it. Once they get over that hump they find out they can make reasonable hits at reasonable ranges.

^ I shot a shotgun match once where on a stage you were required to fire X amount of slugs strong hand, then X amount weak hand. Watched a guy with a pump gun shoot the strong hand side, then move the shotgun to his left shoulder while leaving his hands where they were (and tried to shoot that way). He wasn’t trying to “game” it or use some kind of trick, it just never occurred to him to switch the position of his hands. After trying and trying and trying to get a sight picture (he may have even fired a round that way, I don’t remember), it finally dawned on him to swap them. Point being, some people are just wired differently.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
then move the shotgun to his left shoulder while leaving his hands where they were

That is a method taught for use with an AR when for some reason the shooter doesn't want to take time to reposition the hands. The technique can be used for a “quick peek” when it’s necessary, for example, for a right-handed shooter to clear a hallway from a corner to his right before moving into the hallway: Quick switch of buttstock to left shoulder without moving hands, rotate out and look, switch back to right shoulder to move down the hall. It’s most useful when trying to move quickly through a building, but making maximum use of cover/concealment briefly before fully exposing oneself.

But regardless of the hand position, the biggest problem I've seen shooters have when trying to shoot from the nondominant side is trying to achieve a proper sight picture.

Yeah, you don’t want to do that with 12ga slugs.

Important. Same thing we do when doing weak handed pistol drills right?

quote:

Originally posted by JonDaddy82:
Important. Same thing we do when doing weak handed pistol drills right?

I was wondering when someone would bring that up as a comparison.
Although I’ve never heard of a non-LEO having to switch his handgun to his nondominant hand in a gunfight, we know it happens on occasion to police officers, and usually because their dominant hand has been disabled. That makes training and practice shooting that way a reasonable use of time and resources, IMO, even if it’s just to condition them to not give up if wounded.

But if someone becomes injured to the point of being unable to fire a long gun from the dominant shoulder, how likely is it that he would even be able to switch to the other side, much less deliver accurate fire that way? Has it happened and someone continued the fight with a long gun? Yes, at least once during the infamous Miami incident in which an FBI agent used a slide action shotgun to fire a few rounds with one hand. He didn’t accomplish much with it and had to finish things with his revolver, but we can say he did it. But not from the normal shoulder firing position.

If one is concerned about being able to continue fighting with a long gun if severely wounded, I contend it would be a better use of ammunition and efforts to train to shoot the gun with one hand, and most of the time that won’t be from a normal shoulder position.

None of this is to criticize anyone for wanting to become proficient shooting a long gun from one’s nondominant shoulder if they want to do what’s necessary to accomplish that goal, but it should be based on a clear understanding of the factors involved.

Man, Para can probably just close threads after sigfreund has replied a few times. He has a knack for making sense out of all the little bits everyone has said about the topic, and presenting it in a few very well-written posts that get to the bottom of it. Well said, sigfreund.