The Lovely Girlfriend is wanting a shotgun of her own. (I'm happy about that for her, plus it keeps her from wanting one of mine. :P ) Because her primary intent is home defense use, we've been looking at [relatively] short-barreled things -- 18"-ish. I'm an 870 fan, so I keep looking for the compact or youth models. They're pretty darned hard to find right now. Remington's R25559 might be a good option, though it's a 4+1, whereas R25077 is a 6+1.

As she's a "small-frame" person, I wonder: 1) is a 12-ga going to be rough on her, and 2) should we look into something in 20-ga? I want to find something that won't beat on her so badly while learning to use it that she'd be reluctant to continue practicing. And that's about the point where I realize I may not be asking the right questions. Or maybe I'm going about this entirely wrong.

Shotguns in 12-ga are easier to find than 20-ga right now, for sure, particularly when I'm 870-biased. That leads me back to the question of what's available in a low-recoil setup, that's also a good "household use" load?

Help me get pointed in the right direction please? Thank you.

I've found Federal Power-Shok Buckshot - Low Recoil (H132 00) to have very mild recoil, but still a perfectly good defense load. Could shoot it all day, and I have. YMMV.

You're concerned about recoil and yet you are shopping for a pump gun? Any autoloader (12ga or 20ga) would shoot softer.

Winchester Ranger low recoil buckshot would not cycle in my Beretta 1201FP semi auto.

Federal FliteControl low recoil cycled in it.


I can’t really tell the difference in recoil between both.

If you cover ups ground shipping, I’ll send you two boxes of the Winchester for her to try out. No clue what shipping costs are nowadays. I can always weigh a box and get an estimate.

I really like the Federal FliteControl low recoil. It was even manageable out of my Shockwave.

As for her size, try the MagPul SGA stock. It’s adjustable for anything from a 12.5-14.5 lop. Hogue also makes a youth stock/slide combo that’s nice, I have it on one of my 870s. I prefer the MagPul but either way it’s easy to swap out to make the shotgun fit her better.

Good video on the 870



Here's an example of low-recoil ammo in an 870 with the SGA. Follow-up shots are pretty quick when you practice.


For a smaller framed person, I'd avoid the extended magazine tube. While not a factor for larger statured people, the added weight may be harder for a petite woman.

Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by crash:
You're concerned about recoil and yet you are shopping for a pump gun? Any autoloader (12ga or 20ga) would shoot softer.

I'm open to an auto. In fact, there's a 20-ga 11-87 we could put our hands on quickly. What would be your recommendation for feeding it?

quote:

Originally posted by Chowser:
If you cover ups ground shipping, I’ll send you two boxes of the Winchester for her to try out.

Chowser, that's mighty generous, and I'd like to take you up on that offer. I'll email you shortly. Thank you!

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
For a smaller framed person, I'd avoid the extended magazine tube. While not a factor for larger statured people, the added weight may be harder for a petite woman.

Tony, thank you for the videos, and for the idea of the weight of the extended magazine. I had considered grabbing the R25559 and adding an extension later if desired, though I hadn't considered the weight at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
As for her size, try the MagPul SGA stock. It’s adjustable for anything from a 12.5-14.5 lop. Hogue also makes a youth stock/slide combo that’s nice

And thank you for the LOP thoughts. I overlooked that, too. That's going to be key for her.

It might not be a good idea to have both 12 and 20 gauge in the same household. Yeah, I don't. Back in the 1970s I went to 12 gauge and gave away all my 20 stuff. Before that, and just for fun, I accumulated a full array of 20 gauge loads. As soon as I started buying 12 gauge, i realized all the warnings about 20s and 12s together. Nope.

A consideration if she/or you plan on keeping them in the same room or safe. Just buy her the 12 and get it over with.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:
1) is a 12-ga going to be rough on her,

IMO, no.

I tend to be a bit recoil sensitive, particularly with handguns, and I've never found a 12ga to be that bad. I started shooting my dad's Wingmaster when I was a skinny kid of about 13. Does it have a punch? Sure, everything does, but it's not bad enough to be concerned with.

3" Mags might give you a shoulder bruise, but anyone should be able to shoot 2 3/4s all day long.

The words '12 gauge' and 'low recoil' should not appear in the same sentence unless accompanied by the phrase 'does not have'.

If you want low recoil in a long gun for home defense, the .223 is the way to go. I know this is not what you asked, but for home defense, the .223 self loading rifle is the low recoil solution.

On the 12 vs 20 gauge, most of the 20 gauge shotguns I’ve seen are made with a lighter weight frame, making the lower recoil of the 20 gauge ammo a moot point.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

I'm open to an auto. In fact, there's a 20-ga 11-87 we could put our hands on quickly. What would be your recommendation for feeding it?

That will be as low a recoil option as you can get in an effective shotgun.
Find yourself some 20ga. No.1 or 3 buckshot, but No.1 if at all possible, and let her pattern it so she knows what to expect.

Otherwise, Para nailed it here.

For reduced recoil loads and reliability, I would NOT recommend a semi-auto. Pump and practice is the way to go.

Tony.

If you don’t find what you need from Chowser let me know and I can offer other loads to try. I have to go through my safe but have at least 3 lower recoil offerings, maybe 4. My sbs 590a1 eats all of them just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I know this is not what you asked, but for home defense, the .223 self loading rifle is the low recoil solution.

I understand your statement and appreciate your advice. She's relatively new to the sport, and I'm trying to accommodate her learnings in the order she asks. So far her interests have been .22 pistol, .38 revolver, shotgun. I'm looking forward to her asking for rifle time.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
For reduced recoil loads and reliability, I would NOT recommend a semi-auto. Pump and practice is the way to go.

That makes sense. I thank you again.

quote:

Originally posted by 94hokie:
If you don’t find what you need from Chowser let me know and I can offer other loads to try. I have to go through my safe but have at least 3 lower recoil offerings, maybe 4. My sbs 590a1 eats all of them just fine.

And thank you as well. Chowser and I have a plan, but I'll likely get in touch with you shortly. Heck, man, I seem to be in your area once a month or so; we should have a beverage sometime. I'd like to learn a bit from your experience with that SBS and learn about gun shops in your area, too, if you have the time.

- - - - - - -

I did get an R25559 in the works today; should have that in a week or so. Hogue offers a 12" LOP stock and forend kit (08732) for the 870; I'll contact our pal Greg Cote about getting hold of one of those if the original 14" setup proves too long. Now it's time to start studying these Rangers, FliteControls, and Power-Shoks.

I shoot 4 gun Skeet and the squad I shoot with is composed of 4 people. At most Registered Shoots that means that we will have a "floater" assigned to us to make up a 5 man squad. Btw, an Event is 100 rounds of one single caliber and a 4 gun Registered shoot is composed of Events for 410, 28 gauge, 20 gauge, and 12 gauge.

Last year at the State Championship our "floater" was a wonderful 10 year old girl all of 4'6" tall and perhaps weighing in between 80- and 85 lbs. She handled the 12 gauge without any problems at all, in fact she beat me by 2 points.

Point is with proper technique the 12 gauge recoil is quite manageable. It won't knock you off your feet and it won't beat you to death. Fact is that it takes about 15 years of shooting 10,000 or more rounds a year to cause enough damage to the shoulder to have you start using a 20 or 28 gauge shotgun for the 12 gauge events.

BTW, the video linked by Benny6 about managing recoil is an excellent instruction video on how to properly mount a shotgun, so make it a favorite and have your girlfriend watch until she knows every word by heart. Then take her to a shotgun range that offers Trap and use up 2 or 3 boxes of #7.5 or # 8 shot target loads to get her up to speed on hitting clays.

Note: I prefer a pump for Home Defense because a well made pump is very reliable, so reliable that it may never fail even if it has been sitting in a corner for 30 years.

Semi's on the other hand can be rather fussy about ammo and they do need to be cleaned properly after every outing. Yeah, some will say they only clean once a year and those are the folks who have to spend hours scrubbing caked on debris and complaining that there once reliable gun won't work. It's all about Maintenance folks and if you don't do it you'll have a gun that wont run.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Last year at the State Championship our "floater" was a wonderful 10 year old girl all of 4'6" tall and perhaps weighing in between 80- and 85 lbs. She handled the 12 gauge without any problems at all, in fact she beat me by 2 points.

That's exactly what I'm looking for -- getting TLG into a 12-ga without it beating on her.
And if she can beat my shots, then all the better! (Shouldn't be tough to do.... )

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
BTW, the video linked by Benny6 about managing recoil is an excellent instruction video on how to properly mount a shotgun, so make it a favorite and have your girlfriend watch until she knows every word by heart. Then take her to a shotgun range that offers Trap and use up 2 or 3 boxes of #7.5 or # 8 shot target loads to get her up to speed on hitting clays.

I'm with you on the value of Benny6's linked video. I learned a bit from it, and I'll definitely watch it again with her several times. There are two ladies at the local Izaak Walton range who I'd love to put TLG in touch with, for practical teaching. They're awesome to watch, knocking down clays with almost boring regularity.

Fiocchi reduced recoil slugs and buckshot are very high quality and reliable.

I have shot a BUNCH of them at 3 gun matches over the years.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
For reduced recoil loads and reliability, I would NOT recommend a semi-auto. Pump and practice is the way to go.

Tony.

In many situations I would agree, but I have fired hundreds of rounds of fiocchi reduced recoil buckshot and slugs through a Benelli M2 without a single malfunction.

You absolutely need to make sure the combination is reliable by verification with a significant number of live fire rounds.

IMHO, a pump action being short stroked by a somewhat inexperienced shooter is more likely than an ammunition related malfunction, assuming a high quality gun and ammo that has been verified to be reliable.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The words '12 gauge' and 'low recoil' should not appear in the same sentence unless accompanied by the phrase 'does not have'.

If you want low recoil in a long gun for home defense, the .223 is the way to go. I know this is not what you asked, but for home defense, the .223 self loading rifle is the low recoil solution.

This is true. An AR15 is much easier to handle and more lethal, all things considered, than a shotgun.

I wouldn't feel naked with a shotgun, but I have shot a lot more rounds through a practical shotgun than most people.