I haven't really been keeping up with how the market shifts. I do know that at least when I was makers came and went or fell and rose in the general assessment of quality and value.

What would you consider "entry" level both maker and cost then through mid to upper level maker and cost?

I'm considering a mid-range to upgrade from what I would think as an entry level Bushmaster XM15 E2S A3. I see these are running around $600 street price at my FFL, then there is Christensen Arms up into the $2200 to $3000 range.

SIG, at least what I've seen at my FFL recently has offerings between $1000 to $1500 or so and then online, on up.

If you gave a list of five best quality and value from entry level to higher end, who would be on the list for commercially built ARs in .223 or 5.56?

The entry level and midrange is saturated that a list would be hard to compile.

I like S&W MPII for an entry level gun. Midrange would probably be Colt.

I went DD for mine but I could be equally happy with any of the following. Upper end, in no particular order.

LWRC
LMT
Daniel Defense
BCM
POF/PWS/KAK

Thanks for the attempt!

FWIW, I'm leaving Rock River and Springfield Armory out of the mix for being back-stabbing scum. Otherwise I'd put them both somewhere between entry- and mid-level.

Sub-entry level (tinkerer's specials):
Radical Arms, Buffalo Arms, Bear Creek, DPMS (if they're still around)

Entry Level:
Anderson Arms, Windham Weaponry, Ruger, Smith & Wesson

Mid-Level:
Armalite, Colt, FN

Upper Level:
BCM, DD, POF, Noveske, Knight's Armament

I apologize for not just giving you a list of five, but there are so many manufacturers out there that I'm not sure how to come up with a ranked list with only five entries. Heck, I'm sure I left plenty of companies off of the list as it is.

Does Noveske actually make anything in house? Or are they just assemblers?

Thanks for the reply, Il Cattivo, very helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
Does Noveske actually make anything in house? Or are they just assemblers?

That's the same question I have about BCM?

If the rifle and customer support are good, does it matter? It seems as though every "manufacturer" contracts out some portion of the parts and accessories that get built into their rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
If the rifle and customer support are good, does it matter? It seems as though every "manufacturer" contracts out some portion of the parts and accessories that get built into their rifles.

Not really, just curious. Im sure there shops that do a lot in house that have less QC than shops that outsource. Wasnt a jab, pure curiosity. I guess my contempt for them is the markup they get for stamping a cross on something and asking 20% more. Im glad they can pull it off, its great marketing. Pretty sure Danile Defnse is the only one making 100% in house, at least they used to be, perhaps not anymore.

Other than marketing claims how can anyone verify who is a 'top tier' manufacturer? Colt made M16 and M4 rifles for the military, and now FN has that contract. I would put both those companies in the top five catagory. Are you using the TDP to determine QA/QC? Ranking them by barrel steel? Also, AFAIK none of the manufacturers thus far listed have their own foundry, so the forged receiver blanks all come from soneone else.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
Other than marketing claims how can anyone verify who is a 'top tier' manufacturer? Colt made M16 and M4 rifles for the military, and now FN has that contract. I would put both those companies in the top five catagory. Are you using the TDP to determine QA/QC? Ranking them by barrel steel? Also, AFAIK none of the manufacturers thus far listed have their own foundry, so the forged receiver blanks all come from soneone else.

Nobody is bolting on a forged receiver blank. Last I check they could be out of spec. I didnt say these comanies weres sourcing their own material, I sadi making their own parts.

Just because the military chose them doesnt mean they were the best, just the cheapest that met the minimum standard.

I have no problems with a manufacturer/assembler that contracts out certain parts to other entities. After spending 15 years in industrial manufacturing, I realized our company made some parts and assemblies with absolute brilliance and others.....not so much. Few entities can be the best at everything. That's why we had subcontractors and suppliers. Such concepts go back just a few decades -- as in comparative vs. absolute economic advantage.

Barrels are one example. Few companies have the resources to fund a hammer forged barrel process. I suspect even those entities with HF barrel facilities sell some of their production to other companies in order to justify the capital investment. And to keep the lights on. The buyer of products determines the specs of delivered parts, assuming the manufacturer allows options.

There are certain advantages to HF barrels, however not all shooters share the same goals for their ARs. If accuracy is a primary goal for a given competition AR, very few factory guns have adequate barrels. In such instances the knowledgeable shooter may choose a barrel from the likes of Krieger, Bartlein, Shillen, Lilja, or White Oak.

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
is the markup they get for stamping a cross on something and asking 20% more.

Well, yeah.

So in the spirit of providing actual information on what lasts and what doesn't, here's a link to an ARFCOM thread about Henderson Defence's range, Battlefield Las Vegas. They have several threads on the longevity and reliability of their rental firearms, so here's the AR-15 thread.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar...ur_range/118-677135/

quote:

Originally posted by WARPIG602:
I went DD for mine but I could be equally happy with any of the following. Upper end, in no particular order.

LWRC
LMT
Daniel Defense
BCM
POF/PWS/KAK

HK makes an excellent gas piston AR-15 that was used by 'that' unit until big Army made them stop.

There is no difference, PSA uses all the same parts as a top tier manufacturer and you only spent $450.

<sarcasm, ducks>

Honestly, my list.

BCM
Colt
DD
KAC
LMT

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
So in the spirit of providing actual information on what lasts and what doesn't, here's a link to an ARFCOM thread about Henderson Defence's range, Battlefield Las Vegas. They have several threads on the longevity and reliability of their rental firearms, so here's the AR-15 thread.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar...ur_range/118-677135/

been years since I have searched/surfed ARFCOM (used to be a paying member)

thanks for his link, I went thru a few pages and it is very informative,

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
There is no difference, PSA uses all the same parts as a top tier manufacturer and you only spent $450.

<sarcasm, ducks>

Honestly, my list.

BCM
Colt
DD
KAC
LMT

Battlefield Las Vegas uses PSA uppers and BCG's on full auto lowers. They have stated that the failure rate with PSA parts is the same as DD and LMT. Colt is still the best.