Better to be lucky than good. I bought a .22 SMLE trainer last week. Advertised as a 1915 BSA SMLE converted to .22 in 1929 [Still has volley sights but no mag cutoff. Weirdly, the rear sight not updated for .22, I'm going to put crayon marks on it for 50/100/150 yds.]. Turns about it was converted in 1916 [1 of 1700] AND 1929. A "double conversion", made of unobtainium. And I paid below the going rate , guess I'll buy a lottery ticket!

Always meant to get a .22 converted No 1 when they were "cheap", and I never did.

Nice looking rifle.

Any import markings?

quote:

Nice looking rifle.


Any import markings?

Thanks.


Not import marked.

Interesting. What's the toggle-lever looking thing on the left side? My son's .303 doesn't have that. Also, how does it feed? Is it single-shot or does it use a magazine?

I believe you are looking at the components of the volley. Mostly removed after WWI.

Most .22 No 1 Enfields were single loaders unless fitted with the Parker-Hiscock magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
What's the toggle-lever looking thing on the left side?

That's the front volley sight. The rear volley sight is that tall peep on the left rear of the receiver, next to the safety.

Initially included on early Lee Enfield production, they were envisioned to be used by massed ranks of soldiers firing simultaneous volleys of bullets at extreme ranges towards massed ranks of oncoming enemy troops slowly marching towards your line. Think 1700s/1800s-style massed rank warfare, just at much longer ranges thanks to inventions like smokeless powder and spitzer bullets.

How extreme of ranges are we talking, you ask? Well, the volley sights are graduated from 1600-2800 yards, and there's 1760 yards in a mile... So we're talking ~1 to ~1.5+ miles away. The rifle had to be held at a very steep angle upwards for the bullets to be able to make it that far, hence the dramatic offset between the front and rear volley sights. At the 2500+ yard settings, the front volley sight would actually be below the bottom of the forestock.

But with WW1's advent of more modern warfare, that style of massed volley fire was recognized as obsolete, anachronistic, and totally unrealistic. So the volley sights were deleted from rifle production, and nearly all earlier SMLEs that initially had them installed ended up having them removed during subsequent overhauls.

As a result, they're uncommon to find intact these days.

Thanks guys, very interesting. I've read a bit about volley fire, and know the basic concept, but have never seen a sighting system quite like that before. The ones i've seen have mostly just allowed the regular rear sight to elevate to extreme levels. I've always thought it would be kinda cool to get a bunch of people together with period rifles on a long distance range and actually try it out to see how effective it would be against a tight formation of targets at 1000-2000 meters.

Interesting that they offset it to the left side of the rifle...how did they sight with that thing...use their left eye? I've found the SMLE to be about the most un-ergonomic design ever for establishing a proper cheek-weld and sight-picture (for me it ends up being more of a chin-weld just to get the sights into my field of view). This offset left-side stuff takes that to a whole new level, though...it's almost like they were trying to make the thing harder to use.

The offset to the left was necessary, due to the extreme upward angle that the rifle had to be held in order to "lob" the bullet over a mile and a half away. Mounting them on top alongside the standard sights wouldn't have been feasible.

Volley sights were used with the right eye, with the rifle on the shoulder. But a cheek weld wasn't doable with the rifle held at such an extreme upward angle.

Keep in mind that these weren't meant for precision shooting. With the volley sights, you were intended to be aiming at a whole tightly-packed mass of enemy infantry. So precise sight pictures weren't necessary.


It still has a standard SMLE front and rear sight for normal aimed fire, but even that rear sight was grossly over-optimistically graduated out to 2000 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
With the volley sights, you were intended to be aiming at a whole tightly-packed mass of enemy infantry.

Or cavalry.

This is one of those things that many people who are otherwise familiar with firearms from the era don’t seem to understand. For example, the tangent sights of some Browning Hi-Power pistols had settings to 500 meters and some C96 Mauser pistol sights had settings to 1000 meters or farther(!). I have read reviews of such guns ridiculing the idea that a pistol could possibly hit a target at such ranges, but the idea of course was not that the shooter would use such a sighted pistol to pick off an individual soldier a kilometer away. Although we can question whether anyone armed with such a weapon would actually waste ammunition firing at even a massed formation of the enemy or what effect handgun bullets would have at such ranges, based on the sights’ prevalence on early 20th century pistols, the concept was a popular one.

I have two of the Enfield trainers. Still have one. Great shooting rifles. I don’t recall if UK armorers ever re-graduated the rear eights for .22. I tried all different kinds of ammo to see what was the most accurate. Expensive match to cheap crap .22. Mine likes Remington Thunderbolt the best.

Enjoy. You scored a good one.

did you post this one over in Lance's thread on GB?

lovely rifle,

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:
did you post this one over in Lance's thread on GB?

lovely rifle,

Guilty as charged. Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by kz1000:

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:
did you post this one over in Lance's thread on GB?

lovely rifle,

Guilty as charged. Thank you.

thought that was you,


I'm looking forward to Lance's 22 Enfield book,
his book on the SMLE is well done

See the volley sights in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWOw9Q6bovs

Reported here first:
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/2690036984

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
See the volley sights in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWOw9Q6bovs

Reported here first:
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/2690036984

Just got done watching that...very cool video!

Also, I just realized your sling is the wrong way around.

The long section goes on the bottom/outside, with the shorter section on the top/inside and the prongs pointing outward.

quote:

Also, I just realized your sling is the wrong way around.

The long section goes on the bottom/outside, with the shorter section on the top/inside and the prongs pointing outward.

Thanks RogueJSK! My SMLE GL rifle was wrong too. I got them both that way, easy fix.

Took it to the range yesterday. Shot 100yds with sight set to 550 yrs per Gun Jesus. Not very accurate. Gonna try 50 yds (450 on sight) & try again.

I bought my older brother one of these that was unissued.

Mars, that rifle is beautiful! Are the sights set up for 22lr or 303? Mine is still set for 303, I'm having issues setting them to 22lr. Not sure info from Ian @ Forgotten Weapons is correct.