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Anyone running off set red dot on your AR/MSR? Login/Join 
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posted
Going today to my friends rifle range to confirm some holds on the new FN rifle and the LPVO and I've been doing some reading this week.
I know it's not a new concept but I keep seeing videos and reading about shooters with LPVOs leaving them on the highest magnification and running like an RMR/red dot for closer targets. I'm intrigued by the concept but thought I'd pick some brains here before diving in.
Those of you who do run these, do you like or dislike? Advantages or disadvantages?
T Rex arms, Arisaka and others make an offset mount and I've been on their sites.
TIA.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 3371 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of powermad
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I've looked into it a bit.

If I already had a small red dot I would go with Ariska, they have plates for just about anything. Up to 1.93" tall.

For me having an offset red dot on a 1-X or 2.5-X isn't something I would get a real use out of for the shooting that I do, which is what I would call casual.
I'm still learning to use what I have now and don't need to be adding something else into the mix.
 
Posts: 1150 | Location: Portland Oregon | Registered: October 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Delta-3
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I've been running offset red dots for a couple of years now. It makes transitioning to "close" shots extremely fast & accurate. I use T-Rex mounts because they sit at a closer degree to the rifle & are very solid. I don't have to cant the rifle as far to acquire the dot.
Either mount will work fine for you.


Rom 13:4 If you do evil, be afraid. For he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
 
Posts: 602 | Location: NW Ohio but Montana is always home. | Registered: September 30, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have an offset dot on a bolt rifle with a higher power scope. But have offset iron sights on an AR with an LPV. At some point you start to think “Why am I limiting myself with a low power scope if I’m never going to use the lowest power settings?”
 
Posts: 19860 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by cas:
I have an offset dot on a bolt rifle with a higher power scope. But have offset iron sights on an AR with an LPV. At some point you start to think “Why am I limiting myself with a low power scope if I’m never going to use the lowest power settings?”


Good question and 1 I answered earlier today.
Longer range was fine and I was hitting torso sized targets out to 400 yards with varying success.
When I moved in to ~25 yards, I turned on the illumination feature on the scope and because it's FFP, the reticle became very small and to the point of not being able to see the hash marks. I had it on 1x and I was able to punch center on most targets. Held over about what I guessed at a little over 3" and I was golden.
I'm starting to possibly rethink getting an offset red dot. Time will tell.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 3371 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by joatmonv:
Going today to my friends rifle range to confirm some holds on the new FN rifle and the LPVO and I've been doing some reading this week.
I know it's not a new concept but I keep seeing videos and reading about shooters with LPVOs leaving them on the highest magnification and running like an RMR/red dot for closer targets. I'm intrigued by the concept but thought I'd pick some brains here before diving in.
Those of you who do run these, do you like or dislike? Advantages or disadvantages?
T Rex arms, Arisaka and others make an offset mount and I've been on their sites.
TIA.


I've done offset and piggy back RDS.

Offset with LPVO optics: Didn't like it didn't hate it. I was able to hit 300 yards with a 1X setting on my LPVO and closer targets weren't an issue.

Piggy back with ACOG: I much preferred this type of setup. Fixed magnification with a RMR on top was a great setup. For me, it was easier to go from a cheek weld to a slightly modified chin weld when going to the RMR. I didn't need to worry about manipulating the weapon at odd angles. Longer range, put reticle on target engage, closer range, slight chin weld and engage.

Of course, that's just what worked for me. I got rid of the red dots on my LPVO rifles.
 
Posts: 776 | Location: NE Pennsylvania | Registered: December 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by davidjinks:
quote:
Originally posted by joatmonv:
Going today to my friends rifle range to confirm some holds on the new FN rifle and the LPVO and I've been doing some reading this week.
I know it's not a new concept but I keep seeing videos and reading about shooters with LPVOs leaving them on the highest magnification and running like an RMR/red dot for closer targets. I'm intrigued by the concept but thought I'd pick some brains here before diving in.
Those of you who do run these, do you like or dislike? Advantages or disadvantages?
T Rex arms, Arisaka and others make an offset mount and I've been on their sites.
TIA.


I've done offset and piggy back RDS.

Offset with LPVO optics: Didn't like it didn't hate it. I was able to hit 300 yards with a 1X setting on my LPVO and closer targets weren't an issue.

Piggy back with ACOG: I much preferred this type of setup. Fixed magnification with a RMR on top was a great setup. For me, it was easier to go from a cheek weld to a slightly modified chin weld when going to the RMR. I didn't need to worry about manipulating the weapon at odd angles. Longer range, put reticle on target engage, closer range, slight chin weld and engage.

Of course, that's just what worked for me. I got rid of the red dots on my LPVO rifles.


Good to know and thank you.

I'm still undecided right now and I may go shooting again just to try closer targets and see if I can duplicate what I did. If I can and I think I'll be able to, I'll probably just scrap the idea of an offset dot.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 3371 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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I haven't done it with a red dot, but I've done 45 degree offset BUIS on a couple rifles with magnified optics, and find the setup to be quite intuitive and easy to utilize.

45 degree offset red dots should be the same, with the added drawback that you can't fold down an offset red dot like you could with offset folding BUIS, so it would add a bit more to the bulk of the rifle full time.
 
Posts: 29447 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've been running LVPO's that have a pretty decent illuminated dot at 1x (NF) and this seems like the best option to me. I've run (like RogueJSK) offset irons but that's really to deal with a different set of priorities and ranges.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10216 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Everyone is different. I've had top mounted dots and found using them so much more awkward (and slower) than just rolling the rifle.

I've shot offset irons out to several hundred yards without any issue. As well as shooting whole matches with them, never taking the caps off the scope. My only offset dot is on a rifle that I think is close 15-16 lbs, so the feel is a little different than an AR. lol
 
Posts: 19860 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
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quote:
Originally posted by cas:
I have an offset dot on a bolt rifle with a higher power scope. But have offset iron sights on an AR with an LPV. At some point you start to think “Why am I limiting myself with a low power scope if I’m never going to use the lowest power settings?”


I give up. Would you mind unpacking the question and the answer? I don't understand and would like to.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 18044 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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The OP is talking about mounting a LPVO (typically 1-4x or 1-6x) and just leaving it at max magnification (4x/6x) and using an offset red dot for anything that doesn't need full magnification.

So cas is asking why they'd bother with a LPVO in that situation, if they're never going to utilize the lower end of the LPVO's magnification options. Instead, they could go with a fixed 4x or 6x optic, which would have the same effective capabilities but be cheaper and lighter, or go with an even higher powered adjustable optic like 3x-8x or 6x-12x and then they'd have additional higher magnification capabilities compared to the LVPO maxed out 4x/6x.

Either way, they wouldn't be missing out on the LVPO's 1x/2x/3x/etc. low power settings, since they apparently weren't going to be taking advantage of those anyway.
 
Posts: 29447 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OP, perhaps this may help explain a few things.

https://youtu.be/vBvx1GJNUA4


Rom 13:4 If you do evil, be afraid. For he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
 
Posts: 602 | Location: NW Ohio but Montana is always home. | Registered: September 30, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Delta-3:
OP, perhaps this may help explain a few things.

https://youtu.be/vBvx1GJNUA4


I'm subbed to him on YouTube and saw that.
His mount was one that I was looking at but it's out of stock.
I'm still debating right now and I'm going to go shoot on 2x at closer range targets again with the illuminated reticle.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 3371 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Rey HRH:

I give up. Would you mind unpacking the question and the answer? I don't understand and would like to.


My setup was on a match rifle, so there were still occasions where I could plan a stage out better/faster with the options I had.

But my point was, you start to think.. if I have offsets sights/dot and a 1x4 (or 1x6 scope), but I always leave the scope on 4, why not have a 4x10 scope and leave it on 4. Then have up to 10x as the option?

(the reason I never changed was where I was shooting the matches, we rarely had targets past 200 yards, one match a year out to 400+, so it wasn't enough benefit to bother)
 
Posts: 19860 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
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quote:
Originally posted by cas:

My setup was on a match rifle, so there were still occasions where I could plan a stage out better/faster with the options I had.

But my point was, you start to think.. if I have offsets sights/dot and a 1x4 (or 1x6 scope), but I always leave the scope on 4, why not have a 4x10 scope and leave it on 4. Then have up to 10x as the option? )


Thank you so much for explaining your thought process. That really is a good question to mull over.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 18044 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I ordered one, the Arisaka offset since T-Rex is out of stock.
Can turn the mount around and get a 35° angle or leave it at 45. My curiosity is piqued enough to try one.
Trijicon RMR, Magpul 2 point sling and MLok mount ordered also. Expensive day yesterday.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 3371 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Forgive my ignorance because I don’t compete and although I do shoot drills with targets at different ranges, none requires me to be exceptionally speedy at going from something like 15 yards to 300. I’m curious, therefore, how much of a handicap it is to use a LPVO in such a situation. I.e., is it that slow and difficult to just change the magnification setting when transitioning from one distance to another?

And if it is a significant detriment in competitions, what do we think about its importance for reasonably possible real world engagements? I know that asking about “real world” makes some people uncomfortable (“I ain’t Rambo!”), but do participants look at extreme competition requirements have having possible defensive or other relevance?
(That question is not, BTW, intended to be any sort of a dig at competitions and their demands. I wish I had the opportunity to do some of it myself, but I am curious about their requirements and how they are met.)




7/93
 
Posts: 45916 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of powermad
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Lucas from the posed video has timed it and it seems to be a bit quicker.

For myself I came to the same conclusion as noted earlier.
Why pay for the features of a 1-x scope and not use them?
Ones with good glass are easily $1,500 and up.
May as well buy a quality fixed power scope and an offset red dot for quite a bit less money.
 
Posts: 1150 | Location: Portland Oregon | Registered: October 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by powermad:
May as well buy a quality fixed power scope and an offset red dot for quite a bit less money ....

A friend and I were talking about that just recently. What is a good fixed power scope these days?




7/93
 
Posts: 45916 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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