Maybe 72 hours ago, I'd never even looked at the brand, didn't know anything about it other than having heard or seen the name in passing. I was wandering around my local shop and saw one on the wall, and was intrigued. Later in the day, one of the guys in my shooting group posted a video of the trigger pull in his after installing a TriggerTech, and some discussion followed. Then I realized I had shot another friend's Gucci'd out 6.5 Creedmoor in an MDT chassis about a month ago. He let me put three of his handloads through it on some 6" plates at 650 yards. It felt like cheating, it was far easier than it seemed like it ought to be. He told me he had $6k in his PRS setup, and that was considered a "budget build." Lots of sixes in that paragraph.

Without going into the details of it, I did really well on an even trade for a pistol I've never shot that was just taking up room in the safe, and came home with this Bergara B-14 in .308. The barrel is engraved "BPF" and it's in an HMR stock. Whatever all that means. I actually had a choice between this one, and one in 6.5 Creedmoor for the same price that was actually in basically brand new condition that I was really tempted by. Honestly, it probably would've been the better performer of the two, but between having at least three thousand rounds of .308 I inherited, plus a bunch of brass, plus a reloading setup, I figured at least I could get my feet wet with the PRS matches some of the guys have been trying to get people to join. Oh, and this one has a TriggerTech trigger in it, which the 6.5 did not. I also recall the punchline of my reading on the .308 vs 6.5 discussion here being that yes, 6.5 is objectively better, but .308 is probably more than adequate for 95% of my purposes.

It has some Surefire monstrosity of a brake on it that isn't even timed, so I figure it was probably just used as a thread protector. I'm going to order a Plan B brake of some sort and throw my .30 cal Stealth Additive Ekron on it. I'm leaning towards a radial so I don't have to screw with timing it. Probably will not shoot it much unsuppressed. These days, I just hate the concussion and blast, I'm totally spoiled now.



I ordered a Weaver 20 moa rail and some Vortex medium height rings, and I have a L.O.W. made Weaver 3-10 I can throw on it until I have the budget for some "real" glass, so I'll at least get to have some fun with it soon. I have a friend who is already trying to sell me an Athlon Ares Gen II 2.5-15X or Cronus Gen II 4.5-29X. He's shooting a PRS match this Sunday, and I'm going to spectate and check out those Athlons, kinda get a feel for the whole thing. Until the last year or so, I'd honestly never knowingly shot past 100 yards. I'm regularly shooting steel out to 300 at the public range for my home club, and a few rifle matches will give me access to the range that has steels set up at almost a thousand yards. Really excited to get into the long range thing.

Beautiful rifle Smudge. What is the weight on that one?

I have seen so many good reviews of Bergara rifles.
It’s unfortunately not possible for everyone, but for those it is, I consider some competency with long range rifle shooting to be an important part of a well-rounded shooter’s abilities.

quote:

Originally posted by 400m:
Beautiful rifle Smudge. What is the weight on that one?

Thanks! My bathroom scale puts it at 9.7lbs unloaded as pictured. With rail, rings, scope, bipod, suppressor and wrap (I don't bother with them except with magnified optics because suppressor mirage is definitely real), probably somewhere in the 12lb range, maybe more. Hard to say. I wouldn't hunt with this one lol. Definitely a PRS rifle. My friend's 6.5 shocked me at how heavy it was, but you know what? Incredibly stable setup. Using a rear bag and squeezing it to walk my crosshairs onto the target was a novel experience.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I have seen so many good reviews of Bergara rifles.

In my night of searching, I saw a lot of great stuff. Rave reviews from two friends I shoot with and trust definitely did not hurt. "You stole it, sir" one said when I got home with it. Always good to hear.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
It’s unfortunately not possible for everyone, but for those it is, I consider some competency with long range rifle shooting to be an important part of a well-rounded shooter’s abilities.

I have as well, just never really had the opportunity until now. I'm looking forward to a new phase in my learning. Wind calls, spotting, DOPE<!!!> and the like. Maybe shoot with someone patient who will explain to me what a mil is in a way that makes sense. Things of that nature.

Honestly, I'm in a really good place for getting into the long range thing. There's a strong community of great shooters here across a few different clubs. I also have a few spots I've found with the guys, way out in the desert where we can stretch out to a thousand yards and more with relative ease, and unbothered by truckloads of beer-swillers and brass goblins. Put those together, and it's just time to do this.

Nice rifle. It will shoot.

"PRS" can mean a few things. A true PRS match tends to be heavy on stages with:
- Short time limits. Possibly 10 rounds in 90 to 120 seconds.
- Shoot and move. Multiple targets and/or multiple shooting positions from barriers.
- Limited use of stable shooting positions -- such as prone or bench.

"Field matches" are generally more friendly to the novice shooter. More time per stage, possibly fewer targets per stage, generally more stable shooting positions, "barriers" tend to be more natural -- like boulders, trees, berms.

True PRS matches are dominated by the less energetic 6mm cartridges. Think 6BR, 6BRA, 6 Dasher, and the like.

Field-type matches may have longer-distance targets (at least they do in my region) that allow more energetic cartridges to be competitive -- such as 6 Creedmoor, 25 Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, and similar.

To be honest, 308 Win isn't competitive against the 6mm, .25cal, and 6.5mm bores. At any distance. It boils down to the 308's higher recoil, higher wind drift, and larger elevation drops. I know this because I own & shoot 308, 6.5CM, and 6CM rifles. I've shot buddies' 6BR, 6BRA, and 6 Dasher rifles -- their calibers make it easier to play the PRS game. Folks who state that 308 does just fine competitively in PRS-type matches don't have much (if any) experience in real competition.

Much of the advantage of cartridge such as 6BR is the enhanced ability to see your bullet impact on the target. Especially close-ish targets -- those under 300 yards. By this I mean if your shooting fundamentals are good enough, you might even be able to see the bullet's "trace" -- a gray/silver shockwave in the air caused by supersonic bullet flight. You see the bullet land on the steel and splatter. Then you have immediate feedback on what wind/elevation corrections may be required for the next shot. This isn't "Hey, I saw a puff of dirt after the reticle got back on target, after settling down from recoil." It is "Hey, I saw the bullet fly, curve gently towards the target, and watched it punch into the dirt."

Just to be clear, I don't often see my own bullet trace on targets closer than 500-600 yards. High altitude, dry air, more energetic cartridges, and less-than-perfect technique make it hard. Also to be honest, I rarely look for trace on closer targets, as I'm focusing on bullet impact location. But on a quality spotting scope directly behind a shooter, I see trace the majority of the time. Unless I'm shooting like dog shit, I pretty much always directly see my impacts at targets of at 200-ish yards or more. Once in a blue moon, I see my direct impacts at distances of 100 yards or less. Seeing bullet impacts on targets requires that the sights move by no more than about .1 or .2 mils from point of aim, all the way through the recoil cycle. Even better if the crosshairs don't move from POA at all.

But that doesn't mean you can't have a kick-ass time shooting any variety of PRS-type events with a 308. Get out there and have some fun.

****
Learning mils (or MOA, for that matter) is a change in many people's thought process. You must start thinking in angles, and mils is an angular function. Kinda like degrees (of a circle, not of a thermometer), but just a smaller unit of angle. You no longer think of inches or centimeters at the target. You think what upward angle is necessary to elevate the gun so the bullet lands on the plate. You think what lateral angle is necessary to compensate for wind drift.

For example, ballistics might state that your cartridge (based on MV, bullet B.C., air density) requires 3.1 mils of elevation for a given target distance. You don't care how many centimeters or inches over the target that the bore is pointing. You just dial 3.1 mils on the elevation turret, or hold 3.1 mils on the reticle.

Depending on your ballistics program and its inputs, you might get a wind correction for the estimated MPH of wind cross speed, or a wind correction for a 10 mph base line. Let's say your program lists .6 mils of drift for a 10mph crosswind (from 3- or 9 o'clock), but you think the wind is only 5mph. So...you hold via reticle (we rarely dial wind) .3 mils (i.e. 5/10 of .6 mils) into the cross wind. You don't care how many centimeters or inches the wind is pushing the bullet sideways -- you have compensated for the wind drift with angles.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Nice rifle. It will shoot.

Thank you. Your input carries weight with me.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
"PRS" can mean a few things. A true PRS match tends to be heavy on stages with:
- Short time limits. Possibly 10 rounds in 90 to 120 seconds.
- Shoot and move. Multiple targets and/or multiple shooting positions from barriers.
- Limited use of stable shooting positions -- such as prone or bench.

I think for starters, this is the type of stuff I'll be doing at my local club once I have my rifle set up. I'm not sure whether the field events you describe are something they offer or not.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
To be honest, 308 Win isn't competitive against the 6mm, .25cal, and 6.5mm bores.

-

But that doesn't mean you can't have a kick-ass time shooting any variety of PRS-type events with a 308. Get out there and have some fun.

Yeah, I have no expectation of being competitive against anyone but myself for some time. I should have "just enough" of the right gear to get in there and start doing the thing, and for now, that's the important part. If I have the time, determination, and more importantly the money to sink into it, I am starting to develop some industry connections that are yielding some interesting contacts that will help, including last night, a custom barrel maker. So, when the time comes and I'm ready to go to a different caliber, that'll be a whole new discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Learning mils...

Thanks for that! It'll be an adjustment period, for sure. It's just another example of how much there is to learn. Starting off, you don't know what you don't know.

I believe Bergara uses pre-fit (Remage) replacement barrels. Not all the premier barrel manufacturers make prefits, but it seems there a number of 'smiths that do prefits. I'm not certain how "custom" you mean by "custom". My bolt actions have traditional Remy 700 actions -- I've only used Bartlein, Kriger, and Proof barrels. There are a few 'smiths who higher end Remage barrels -- I know of Craddock Precision does Bartlein.

A quality 308 Win barrel takes a lot of shooting to wear out the throat enough that precision accuracy degrades noticeably. F-Class guys often push their loads to 300WM levels, and will replace a barrel in the 4k to 5k round ballpark. PRS-type shooting might go to 5k to 7K rounds. Shooters not all that worried about accuracy or distant targets could go 10k to 15k rounds, but at that point the bullet may be tumbling at longer distances. My 308 with a SS Barltein is at 6700-ish rounds. It's still shooting pretty good, but it's not as consistent as in the past. It's also down a bit in muzzle velocity, which is a primary indication of throat erosion.

Bottom line -- you'll probably get tied of shooting a 308 in PRS before you shoot out the barrel.

***

A challenge with 308 is comparing windage dope with other shooters in your squad, as they will likely be shooting a 6mm or 6.5mm bore with noticeably better flight ballistics. Your ballistics program will determine your scope elevation dope, which you likely won't compare with anyone else. Assuming your loads and absolute elevation above sea level don't change much, your scope elevation won't change much either. But windage requirements vary from target to target, stage to stage, day to day, season to season.

If you're on a close-knit squad of guys who all shoot 6GT (or whatever) with similar bullets & MV, they may talk windage for every target in mils. Now if you have a conversion table from their dope to yours (extremely unlikely), you're good to go on their shot-by-shot feedback. If your squad dudes discuss windage in MPH, then you only need to review your ballistic dope. For example, if they say "I held .4 mils left." Great -- your correct windage might be .6 or .8 or whatever. If they say "I held left for 8mph of wind", then you just look at your dope and hold your estimated windage dope.

I was taught to share windage dope in MPH. The usual suspects in our regional matches used chamberings that included 6BR, 6 Dasher, 6x47 Lapua, 6.5x47 Lapua, 260 Remy, 6.5CM, 308Win, 300WM. In ELR events the chamberings got even more interesting, including some truly heavy-hitter magnums that fought wind drift really well. Possibly even more challenging was team events, when one shooter has an AR15 and the other a precision bolt action. I can honestly tell you that if I told my partner that I held 4 MOA right with my .223 75 grain HPBT, he'd have actually no clue what to do with his mil-based 6mm DTAC loads. But if I said I center punched the plate with 9mph of wind off the right edge, he'd be cool with the feedback.

Bottom line -- try to shoot with folks who speak of windage dope in effective MPH from 9 or 3 o'clock. They're the ones with the real experience of shooting with multiple teammates, multiple calibers, and truly challenging wind conditions. They probably score well, too.

Well, my friend wants to charge me new prices for used Chinese scopes, so I ordered the correct rings for the Weaver Grand Slam and I'll just start off with the Japanese scope I already own. It's this one. I figure I could do a lot worse.

The rings should be here tomorrow, but I won't be able to make it to the range for a bit.

Don't buy Chinese optics. Just don't.

The Weaver Grand Slam will get you started. You'll want something better once you get behind other people's rifles. The Grand Slam's weaknesses include:
- 10x is on the lower end for a PRS scope, but it can work. IMO most targets can be handled with around 12x to 15x. Much more magnification and it can be difficult to jump to different targets. Much less and it can be difficult to hold wind or elevation accurately. 20x to 25x is useful for longer distance targets, from stable positions, when stage time limits are generous.
- Second focal plane means that your reticle is only accurate at 10x. Of course you'll probably shooting all the time at 10x, so it might work OK.
- It lacks a zero stop. You'll find about the benefits of a zero stop when you start dialing elevations a lot.
- I don't think it has parallax adjustment. Over time, you'll find the benefits of a parallax turret.
- A mil dot reticle's graduations are pretty course for accurate holds for wind and elevation.
- The reticle appears to have limited hold over graduations, before it goes into a solid black line. This means you will likely be dialing elevations more than you will be holding elevations.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
- I don't think it has parallax adjustment. Over time, you'll find the benefits of a parallax turret.

Correct, no parallax adjustment. I'll have to be really conscious of a consistent cheek weld.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
- The reticle appears to have limited hold over graduations, before it goes into a solid black line. This means you will likely be dialing elevations more than you will be holding elevations.
- It lacks a zero stop. You'll find about the benefits of a zero stop when you start dialing elevations a lot.

Oof, those combined sound like a recipe for headaches. I'll make it work for now and just start budgeting for something decent.

I can’t wait to see some targets.

quote:

It has some Surefire monstrosity of a brake on it that isn't even timed ...

?

A timed brake is one which directs the exhaust gasses to the sides -- vectors of 3 and 9 o'clock. This eliminates any possible upward/downward or rotational forces on the barrel. Thus increasing accuracy potential.

^^^ "Indexed" might be a better word. "Timed" suggests moving parts working in synchrony, like a revolver cylinder or an engine's timing belt/chain/gears. Neither will work if they are out of time. Hence my confusion.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: egregore,

Probably so, but timed has been used for a long time. I was aware of timed brakes and comps in the 1990s. I suspect the term goes back well before then.

Just FWIW Europtic has several of the Athlon ARES scopes on sell for less than 1/2 price:

https://www.eurooptic.com/athl...il-riflescope-212010

Is it the best scope ever no. But I have that particular scope and it's a damn good scope for less than $500!! Chinese scopes used to be like looking through a jar of Piss, a lot of the ones out today like the Athlon ARES are VERY Good scopes with lots of excellent features and are really hard to beat for the price. Are they as good as my Swarovski Target Scopes - OF COURSE NOT, but they are 1/4 to 1/8th the price and are still quite good.

If you have political issues buying anything from China, no problem but You do You. People who want to achieve equivalent performance for 1/3 to 1/4 price shouldn't be scolded if that's the best they can afford. I have quite a few stupid expensive scopes but for other rifles I'm not going to feel bad for using an inexpensive Scope that's quite good.

This is just my personal opinion, others can have equally valid opinions that are the opposite.........DJ

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
A timed brake is one which directs the exhaust gasses to the sides -- vectors of 3 and 9 o'clock. This eliminates any possible upward/downward or rotational forces on the barrel. Thus increasing accuracy potential.

Thank you for that, fritz. And thank you to egregore for asking the question.

quote:

Originally posted by 400m:
I can’t wait to see some targets.

Mother-in-law was in town the last two weeks and flew home this morning. Hopefully this coming week I can get to the range. In the meantime, here it is with the Weaver mounted and ready to go. I don't have a great place to boresight it, so I'll probably leave the whole process for then.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
Hence my confusion.

Just so, it's the colloquialism in the suppressor community in particular. In the first picture, you can see no ports on the brake, because if you're looking down the rifle with it shouldered, the ports are timed to about 11:00 and 5:00. Obviously, that's not ideal. I backed it off in the second picture to about where it ought to be.

I'm being sent some 3D printed titanium muzzle devices to test out, but it's taking long enough that I don't want to ask or complain, but also kind of do want to go ahead and just buy a 5/8x24 Plan B brake or plain mount and get this thing to the range.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
People who want to achieve equivalent performance for 1/3 to 1/4 price shouldn't be scolded if that's the best they can afford.

Thanks for the link! May very well grab one of those. I have some Aimpoints and an Eotech that are good and I have some Holosuns that are basically the same thing for my purposes. I get what I can afford to and still get out there and do the thing. We've all had the "don't buy from China" conversation many a time, so I'd rather not get too far down that road in this thread, but I agree with your points. This all happens by degrees and we make the best choices we can, where and when we can.

There is a division in PRS for 308 rifles, so you won't be competing directly against the guys shooting 6 GT and the like.

Dive in and have fun!

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

Learning mils (or MOA, for that matter) is a change in many people's thought process. You must start thinking in angles, and mils is an angular function. Kinda like degrees (of a circle, not of a thermometer), but just a smaller unit of angle. You no longer think of inches or centimeters at the target. You think what upward angle is necessary to elevate the gun so the bullet lands on the plate. You think what lateral angle is necessary to compensate for wind drift.

For example, ballistics might state that your cartridge (based on MV, bullet B.C., air density) requires 3.1 mils of elevation for a given target distance. You don't care how many centimeters or inches over the target that the bore is pointing. You just dial 3.1 mils on the elevation turret, or hold 3.1 mils on the reticle.

Depending on your ballistics program and its inputs, you might get a wind correction for the estimated MPH of wind cross speed, or a wind correction for a 10 mph base line. Let's say your program lists .6 mils of drift for a 10mph crosswind (from 3- or 9 o'clock), but you think the wind is only 5mph. So...you hold via reticle (we rarely dial wind) .3 mils (i.e. 5/10 of .6 mils) into the cross wind. You don't care how many centimeters or inches the wind is pushing the bullet sideways -- you have compensated for the wind drift with angles.

Very well said.


I see a LOT of people get hung up on mils vs. MOA because they are worried about adjusting at 100 yards during the zeroing process. I always tell them, don't worry about it.

Use the reticle while zeroing, that's the easy part and you have time to make a few mistakes while getting that part perfect.

Once you have your zero and your MV and all the pertinent ballistic info plugged into the ballistic solver of your choice, you aren't thinking of inches or feet or anything. You plug your distance and wind into your solver and you hold what it spits out. As long as you are feeding good data in, you will get good data out.