I have never had to worry about this before living in a large house with neighbors spread out but I will be staying in a townhouse attached to other townhomes for an extended period of time. What AR15 load would be best for stopping a threat but not going through walls? For that matter, I’ll take suggestions on handgun and shotgun if you want to throw that in.

Frangible? My state has that armed teacher program, and the ARs all, in the area from which i've spoken, are required to use frangible to prevent potential penetration into adjacent classrooms.

Despite that all-too-common, never-dying belief, frangible is not the answer:

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...450052894#9450052894

Birdshot from a shotgun would penetrate less than anything else I know of, and although it is regularly denounced for not having enough penetration to “stop” anyone by destroying their vital organs, it would deter almost anyone in a non-law enforcement self-defense situation. And a shot to the face at close range would give anyone something else to think of.

But keep in mind that anything that will penetrate deeply into a human torso will perforate common building materials.

12ga - #4 buck is effective and wall limiting also.................

You can't cheat the laws of physics.

Any round that has the ability to penetrate into a bad guy will be able to easily penetrate residential walls (which mostly consist of drywall - basically just sheets of chalk held together with paper and glue).

As a wise man here frequently says: "Don't pick your rounds based on what's best to miss with."

So use a capable self defense load with sufficient terminal penetration but not over-penetration, which for a .223 rifle would be a jacketed soft point round. Know your backstops and pre-plan your best firing angles which you can use to base your hunker-down spot(s) on. But most importantly: Train to be able to get effective hits on target.

Federal Premium Tactical with 40gr Nosler Ballistic Tips.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
You can't cheat the laws of physics.

Any round that has the ability to penetrate into a bad guy will be able to easily penetrate residential walls (which mostly consist of drywall - basically just sheets of chalk held together with paper and glue).

As a wise man here frequently says: "Don't pick your rounds based on what's best to miss with."

So use a capable self defense load with sufficient terminal penetration but not over-penetration, which for a .223 rifle would be a jacketed soft point round. Know your backstops and pre-plan your best firing angles which you can use to base your hunker-down spot(s) on. But most importantly: Train to be able to get effective hits on target.

Agreed

Every shot you fire has a lawyer attached to it. Good hits are the answer. Though for townhouse defense the shotgun probably is the best answer

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:
Federal Premium Tactical with 40gr Nosler Ballistic Tips.

All of the Nosler stuff doesn’t perform well in the human body. Especially with any type of heavy clothing.

It’s a great coyote and ground hog round.

When I lived in an apartment, my guns were loaded with the same stuff that I used at work. If it’s good enough for me to shoot inside other people’s houses, it’s good enough to shoot in mine.

There are actually good demonstrations of various projectiles’ penetration powers on YouTube. As Admiral Grace Hopper pointed out long ago, “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions.”

Here is a video of #4 buckshot against drywall. In summary, from a distance of about 15 feet the pellets easily perforated three double layers of drywall, and were only stopped after going through the seventh sheet by a heavy layer of plywood.

https://www.google.com/search?...vid:Y29uODuMv30,st:0

If a valid experiment is worth 1000 genuine expert opinions, it’s worth even more Internet guesses based on, “I heard ….”

This bears emphasizing:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Know your backstops and pre-plan your best firing angles which you can use to base your hunker-down spot(s) on.

Where I am there are brick firewalls between units, although I understand that firewalls could be just extra layers of sheetrock. But I seriously doubt that you have simple interior walls between you and your neighbors.

More importantly, think about angles and firing lanes. It’s good to know in advance where you’d want to be shooting from, and in which direction, at least to the extent possible. I’m assuming you’re concerned with uninvited guests. How and where would they enter?

If goal #1 is that nothing leaves your townhome, birdshot would be your best bet.

If goal #1 is stop the bad guy with keeping everything in the apartment being a nice added bonus, then my approach would be to shoot a bunch of different "reputable" loads through it, pick which one shoots the best out of your rifle, search the internet for any pattern of negative reviews and if there isn't a pattern run with that round. If you do notice a trend of negative reviews, repeat the internet search process with your second most accurate round and so on until you have a round that you are comfortable with.

One review that I found interesting was this one ( [URL= https://www.pewpewtactical.com...netration/#toc11]Gel then wall test[/URL] )on what happens after you hit the bad guy (block of gel) and the round isn't done with it's energy. It could be fake or poorly executed or warranting a Nobel prize in physics for all I know, but I felt like it was a refreshing look at the "just hit the bad guy, end of discussion" comments because more than likely the round is going to keep rocking and rolling even after you've hit the bad guy.

As I have said before, if a bullet won't make a hole in a wall, it won't make a hole in a man.

We were out predator calling years ago, decided to take a break & go after crows. They came in often when calling, so we loaded up hi-powered #6 shot. We called in heavy cover, most often shotguns with #4 buck or ‘T’ ‘hevi-shot’.

As luck would have it, my buddy had a coyote come in right away. He shot it in the face at 15-20 feet, one shot, dead.

Even with shotgun talk, doesn’t have to be the common #4 buck. Higher power 2 3/4” 4 or 6 shot would be fine at apartment ranges.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Y
As a wise man here frequently says: "Don't pick your rounds based on what's best to miss with."

Such a great quote.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Such a great quote.

Yes, probably my favorite here.

Agree with most comments above. Modern Townhouse construction is a joke. Cannot believe cement/block is not the standard.

Another vote for shotgun, I like my Kel-Tech a heck of a lot (Bonus: w/ mini-shells it holds 22+1 ) The Agula mini-shells are sweet, also would help mitigate your concerns. Take you pick: Slugs, Buck, Bird.

https://www.aguilaammo.com/pro...e-minishell-buckshot

You need something like a shotgun with birdshot load, not a high velocity rifle like an AR there IMO

A friend explained to me that at a very short range that birdshot will hit like a slug, but then will spread out, and the possibility of penetration is minimized.

FMJ M193 type ammo reliably fragments through sheetrock and is a good indoor load out of any 5.56\.223 weapon.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
FMJ M193 type ammo reliably fragments through sheetrock and is a good indoor load out of any 5.56\.223 weapon.

I originally thought that too but I’ve seen multiple videos of it blowing through 6-8 walls and an exterior wall. Sideways.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
You need something like a shotgun with birdshot load, not a high velocity rifle like an AR there IMO

A friend explained to me that at a very short range that birdshot will hit like a slug, but then will spread out, and the possibility of penetration is minimized.

At point blank, maybe.

Dick Cheney shot a guy in the head at close range and I'm pretty sure the victim survived. Birdshot is a terrible idea IMO. It is nasty bouncy crap suitable for what it says - birds.

Know your backstop. Be proficient.

If you are shopping for shotgun shells, get a box with a picture of a deer on it.