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Law enforcement shotgun ammunition question. Login/Join 
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted
This is a question for anyone who is familiar with the policy of a law enforcement agency pertaining to what type of ammunition shotguns are normally loaded with for immediate use.

For example, one agency I’m familiar with requires that shotguns be loaded only with issued (00) buckshot when they are in vehicles ready for use. Slugs and less lethal (beanbag or rubber shot) are available to switch to if required, but the idea is that if someone other than the normal user of the weapon grabs the shotgun he can assume that it’s loaded with buckshot without checking. When not in use, e.g., stored in a vehicle, shotguns should not be loaded with any slugs or less lethal ammunition.

If you know the policies of more than one agency, please answer based on the largest one. Also, please do not respond to this poll if you don’t actually know a policy and just have an opinion of what a policy should be. Such comments are welcome in reply posts, but please don’t skew the poll results with should rather than is.

Note that the question refers to how shotguns are normally left loaded, not if the officer may change ammunition for specific situations.

Definitions of ammunition:
Buckshot refers to lethal ammunition loaded with multiple large pellets of any size, such as eight or nine 00 pellets.
Slug refers to a single large lethal projectile.
Less lethal refers to ammunition loaded with less lethal projectiles such as beanbags or rubber projectiles.
Other could include something like buck and ball, i.e., ammunition loaded with a bore-sized projectile and some number of buckshot pellets.

Definitions of load policies:
“Slugs” means all shotguns are required to be normally loaded with slug ammunition only.
“Buckshot” means all shotguns are required to be normally loaded with buckshot ammunition only.
“Less lethal” means all shotguns are required to be normally loaded with less lethal ammunition only.
“Mixed lethal” means all shotguns are required to be normally loaded with some combination of lethal ammunition only. That is, guns are loaded with a mix of slug and buckshot.
“Mixed lethal and less lethal” means all shotguns are required to be normally loaded with a mixture of lethal (slugs and/or buckshot) and less lethal ammunition.
“Unloaded” means that shotguns not in use must be totally unloaded and contain no ammunition of any type.
“No policy, officer choice” means there is no agency policy relating to how shotguns are normally loaded (or not loaded), and it’s up to the individual officer to decide what a duty weapon is loaded with.
“Other” because I always forget some possibility, and there must always be an other.

Question:
.
What shotgun ammunition load policy are you familiar with?

Choices:
Slugs only
Buckshot only
Less lethal only
Mixed lethal
Mixed lethal and less lethal
Unloaded
No policy, officer’s choice
Other

 




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 44195 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Quiet Man
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All department shotguns are to be carried loaded with 00Buck. Qualified Officers are issued slugs which are to be carried on the Officer's person and loaded only when circumstances dictate they would be appropriate. Criteria include extended range, need for more precision than buck can provide, possible body armor, etc. Under no circumstances will any less lethal shotgun ammunition be carried on the officer or loaded into any shotgun. We have dedicated less lethal launchers for that.
 
Posts: 2248 | Registered: November 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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For us (CPD) who had a choice of 00 and Slug.

SWAT and the Heavy Weapons teams in the Detective Div are the only ones using shotguns now.
SWAT has less lethal shotguns (blaze orange stock & fore grip), no one else does.


_____________________________________________________________________

"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

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Posts: 6735 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We are issued both Slug and Buck shot and it is left to the officer which is loaded.

Very few officers opt to have a shotgun in my department as all patrol deputies are issued AR-15's. We were given the opportunity to get a shotgun instead of the AR but when none of the officers asked to swap out, the powers that be decided to allow the few officers interested in having a shotgun to get them in addition to their AR's.
 
Posts: 292 | Registered: November 06, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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We have two guys that are left that qualify and carry shotguns. I know one that has slugs in it and buckshot on the side saddle. The other guy I don’t know his set up. Are supervisor cruisers have a less lethal shotgun on board. More are getting built so there will be at least a car or two maybe more that will have less lethal shotguns cruising around at any given time.
 
Posts: 3457 | Registered: January 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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My old department had a policy that only buckshot was to be in the gun. Slugs were on a bandolier or other type of carrier. But the user had to specifically load slugs for longer shots. They trained with slugs after 25 yards out to 75 yds.

Very few people even asked for them to be issued after we adopted the policy of letting officers carry their personal AR15s in 2003. The PD issued two carbines to each team. So the policy added more firepower to each team.

There was supposed to be one on a team, but most of the time it was the sgt who was issued it, along with a LTL shotgun with orange stocks.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

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Posts: 8645 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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The practice for my Dept. was:
14 inch Remington 870, kept "cruiser ready" with OOB.
Two spare 5 round boxes of OOB and one box of slugs was kept in the cars glovebox.
You inspected the gun to ensure "cruiser ready" at start of shift.
Orange stocked 870 with beanbags were kept in the shift supervisors car.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 12341 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Steve in PA
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A long time ago, our shotguns were loaded "cruiser ready" with 00-buckshot. Slugs were carried in the side saddle.

Several years ago we went to all 00-buckshot.

Two of our officers recently went to a less lethal instructor course and we are in the process of converting three of our shotguns to less lethal (bean bag rounds).


Steve
"The Marines I have seen around the world have, the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps." Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945
 
Posts: 3351 | Location: Northeast PA | Registered: June 05, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Objectively Reasonable
Picture of DennisM
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quote:
Originally posted by DeputyCG:

Very few officers opt to have a shotgun in my department as all patrol deputies are issued AR-15's.


I'm that pain-in-the-ass that likes to point out (mostly to my co-workers) that we don't get rid of our stove just because we have a microwave oven, too.

Two different tools. There's overlap in their application, but at their outside edges each tool does something very well that the other can't.
 
Posts: 2028 | Registered: January 01, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Houston PD, in Texas, from when I was sworn, in 1984, to when I retired, in 2018: 00 or #4 Buck, in the magazine tube. (Officer’s choice.)

As of some time in the early Nineties, for those who have attended the required training, select-load slugs, as deemed necessary, at the officer’s discretion.

Shotguns were owned by the individual officer, so not normally shared, unless more than one officer, such as regular partners, or a small squad, all qual with one shotgun. IOW, each officer is expected to qual with each firearm that he/she will use, for official purposes.

As of when I retired, the approved duty shotguns were the Remington 870, and the Benelli M1 Super 90, or M2. The list of pump guns shrank, over the years. Two things they all had in common were dual action bars, and a cross-bolt safety.

When I stood a fixed post, at a vehicle barricade, during Super Bowl weekend, in 2017, I “selected” a whole mag tube full of fresh Federal TRUBALL Penetrator slugs. It was trendy, in Europe, at that time, for terrorists to steal “lorries,” and then drive into crowded venues, to crush pedestrians.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rexster,


Have Colts, will travel
 
Posts: 3123 | Location: SE Texas | Registered: April 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 808
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Benelli M2 with 14 inch barrel.
Slug frangible Ammo only.


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NRA Life Member
 
Posts: 1176 | Location: Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania | Registered: February 04, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by 808:
Slug frangible Ammo only.


Barrier breaching rounds? Confused




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 44195 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of p220cop
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Shotguns are assigned to a car. Loaded at start of shift and unloaded at end of shift. Deputies issued both 00 buck and slug. 00 buck is the standard daily duty load by policy. Slug "may" be utilized in unusual circumstances. Dedicated "bean bag" shotguns in blaze orange furniture in every supervisor's slead.


*************************

Chaos, panic and disorder. My work here is done........

Not everyone gets the same version of me. One person might tell you I'm an amazing beautiful soul. Another person will say I'm a cold-hearted asshole. Believe them both. I act accordingly......
 
Posts: 71 | Location: Left Coast POW | Registered: June 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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As a curious outsider, for agencies that elected to move to AR-15 from shotgun, was there interest in repurposing the existing shotgun inventory for less lethal uses, thus extending the less lethal options to more users? Or did the qualification training (and cost) for less lethal shotgun make that less appealing?


--
I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.
JALLEN 10/18/18
 
Posts: 2138 | Location: Roswell, GA | Registered: March 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
Picture of Chowser
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We’ve had 14” Benelli M1 Super 90s since 1999. They’re assigned to each car and only loaded with Federal FliteControl huckshot. A box of slugs is in the glovebox. The shotgun and rifle are mounted in between the seats.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 7156 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We load 00 buck, and have 2 slugs on the side saddle.


_______________________________________
Do you only play? Or can you shoot too?
 
Posts: 737 | Location: Alaska | Registered: December 29, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oops! I mean to edit my post, and, instead, quoted myself. Quote deleted.


Have Colts, will travel
 
Posts: 3123 | Location: SE Texas | Registered: April 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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FWIW, I started, in the academy, in 1983, and then worked most or all of the rest of the Eighties with an S&W 3000 pump gun. This was followed, by some time in the very early Nineties, by the Benelli M1 Super 90, then, several of the Remington 870, and finally, 2016-2018, by a Benelli M2. There was some some amount of overlap.


Have Colts, will travel
 
Posts: 3123 | Location: SE Texas | Registered: April 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DennisM:
quote:
Originally posted by DeputyCG:

Very few officers opt to have a shotgun in my department as all patrol deputies are issued AR-15's.


I'm that pain-in-the-ass that likes to point out (mostly to my co-workers) that we don't get rid of our stove just because we have a microwave oven, too.

Two different tools. There's overlap in their application, but at their outside edges each tool does something very well that the other can't.


Exactly.
 
Posts: 292 | Registered: November 06, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of RB211
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We issued both slugs and 00B (Winchester Ranger low recoil) to line deputies for their 13" 870's - supervisors were issued bean bags as well. #4B was authorized, but no one used it as we didn't supply it.

We could use personal shotguns if approved and after qualification, authorized loads only.
 
Posts: 1989 | Location: Atlanta, GA / Mountain City, TN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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