I'm having trouble figuring out what an AR pistol or even an SBR does better than an AR rifle or a full capacity handgun. An AR pistol without a stock or with a brace, has a long range capable cartridge, but isn't easily able to be steadily aimed to utilize at longer range. It seems to me that the premium placed on compact and quickly presented has too many utilization drawbacks.

I just think a 14.5" barrel with a pinned muzzle device and a collapsable stock is compact enough and doesn't give up lots of longer range ability, and that an AR pistol isn't as good as a 17 round mag sidearm up close. It's often said a pistol is for fighting your way to your rifle, and if you've chosen an AR pistol, you have no plans to fight your way to a rifle.

What are the situations AR pistols really shine? In automobiles?

They make for a handy length suppressed rifle. Slung it’s less likely to get in the way, especially dealing with ATV or UTV.

I don’t have a use case scenario where I need a longer AR. I have numerous better options for longer distances.

Other than the suppressor thing ---We are issued BCM SBRs at work. Before that we carried personally owned carbine length guns (mine was 16" Colt). Much easier getting in and out of vehicles. Building clearing is also a lot easier. At the ranges we will most likely be using it I don't think we are giving up too much in velocity. I work in mostly urban/suburban area. Some of our more experienced rifleman (on SigForum) have talked about shooting SBRs at ranges out to 600 yards. I have shot mine out to about 300 yards, which with the red dot (Aimpoint), is the furthest I am comfortable with.

Once you put a suppressor on that 14.5" you get to an obnoxiously long 20+ inches pretty quick.

With SBR approvals now coming back in 1-2 days and suppressors returning in about a week it's worth trying it out for yourself.

I guarantee you won't be going back to a 14.5"/16" barrel. After shooting 10.5"/11.5" suppressed, my 14.5" P/W'd upper is now setup as a "long range" Recce rifle !

One caveat to the above - if I lived in a state that did NOT allow suppressors, I would stick with a 14.5" P/W upper.. 10.5" unsuppressed will rattle the teeth outta your head !!! It's unpleasant to say the least.

I'm going to SBR the Dinky™ so I can put a spare aluminum Colt stock on it. It's a great sneaky little bastard to make your way down a murder hole of a hallway or reach out to 100 yards if needed.

If you have to "fight your way to your rifle", you just better dance with the one you brung.

With stuff like 77gr OTM, a 10.5-12" AR isn't giving up a hell of a lot. In fact, the biggest gains and drops in velocity occur between 10.5-11.5" then 14.5-16" and then again at 18-20" per a discussion we had in the suppressor subforum maybe six months ago. It's a fair smooth curve with noticeable increases at those points.

These are all questions I asked myself until I had my own suppressed 11.5" AR and put several thousand rounds through it at ranges varying from about ten feet to three hundred yards. With a suppressor attached, it's the same length as a 16" rifle but far quieter and less concussive. Without it, it's far louder and more concussive, but appreciably faster to present and get on target. There is no perfect solution, and those are tradeoffs I'm willing to make. I feel like the upsides beat the downsides, and again, if I need a rifle out past three hundred yards, I would prefer to have something in a larger caliber anyways.

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
An AR pistol without a stock or with a brace, has a long range capable cartridge, but isn't easily able to be steadily aimed to utilize at longer range. It seems to me that the premium placed on compact and quickly presented has too many utilization drawbacks.

Who, in late 2024, has an AR pistol without a brace on it? Millions of us got our free stamp and the AFT hasn't kicked in all our doors yet, and the guys who didn't "take the bait" and removed their braces just put them back on. Guys who didn't have an AR pistol before built one and put a brace on it. If you have an AR pistol, and you don't have a brace on it, I daresay you're a simpleton.

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
I'm having trouble figuring out what an AR pistol or even an SBR does better than [ ...] a full capacity handgun.
[...]an AR pistol isn't as good as a 17 round mag sidearm up close.

I went ahead and edited and put these comments together because they speak to the same premise, which is... silly. I'd far prefer to have a shorty AR with a sling and a light on it for defensive purposes rather than a Glock 17, and I have both. There's just no comparison in terminal effect "up close," even without the barrel length needed for the 5.56 to reach it's peak fragmentation potential.

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
It's often said a pistol is for fighting your way to your rifle, and if you've chosen an AR pistol, you have no plans to fight your way to a rifle.

This phrase has an undertone to it which, because it has been repeated to the point of becoming Fuddlore, has gotten lost. That is, that pistols suck at killing people, and their only place is as when you can't have a rifle on you, like out in public. If you need to kill someone with a gun, you want a rifle (or a shotgun, but let's leave that can of worms aside). Then comes the adage about a truck full of friends with rifles. By basing the premise of your argument on a flawed or misguided interpretation of an altruism, you've missed the point, which is: if you have a short barrel AR, then you have no need of fighting to anything in a rifle caliber because you have it in your hands.

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
What are the situations AR pistols really shine? In automobiles?

And hallways, and pieing corners, and transport in cases that don't necessarily scream "gun," and carrying slung for extended periods of time because they tend to be lighter. Then there's the whole pistol vs SBR thing, and both have their upsides and downsides once you've decided you want a compact "gun" in a rifle caliber.

SBRs shine when you put on a silencer. A can on the end of a 16" gun gets heavy.

Everyone's going into a lot of detail, but the simplest answer is that SBRs are best when you're in tight quarters like a home or building, particularly if you want to add a suppressor on the SBR.

If you haven't handled an SBR, I'd highly encourage it. You can tell a big difference in handling them compared to even a 16" barrel. Mine is 12.5" so I'm not really giving up anything significant on ballistics. Adding a suppressor barely gets it to typical carbine length. The balance, speed, all of it just feels better to me.

use in and around vehicles, apartments, schools.

When I finally got the go ahead to get new rifles, I asked about suppressors. I was told never for suppressors so I went and got 14.5" rifles.

Figured it was good for indoors and outdoors (we have alot of outdoors).

Now I was told to get suppressors so I am wishing I got 12.5" rifles instead.

lol
gov't bureaucracy at its finest

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
. With a suppressor attached, it's the same length as a 16" rifle but far quieter and less concussive. Without it, it's far louder and more concussive, but appreciably faster to present and get on target. There is no perfect solution, and those are tradeoffs I'm willing to make.
...
If you have an AR pistol, and you don't have a brace on it, I daresay you're a simpleton.

You would? You'd say that?

I daresay, if you have an AR pistol, and you don't have a suppressor on it, you're not only a simpleton, you're an asshole.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
You would? You'd say that?

I daresay, if you have an AR pistol, and you don't have a suppressor on it, you're not only a simpleton, you're an asshole.

These days with approval times as short as twenty minutes? The case could be made, yeah.

If nothing else, they are best for having fun

11.5 Adams Arms piston upper with Gemtech Halo. Registered Colt SP1 lower. Amazingly controllable in burst or full-auto, and very little blowback with piston set to suppressed gas setting.

https://imgur.com/a/A0z3nXY

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jcook119,

As others have already mentioned AR pistols or SBR's really shine in close quarters

Additionally they work great if you're planning on adding a suppressor

And most importantly they look cool and are fun to shoot

Making a F Ton of Noise!!

This is what they are best at. But as others said. Maneuverability and etc. Tossing on a can, etc. But really... making a lot of noise.

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
I'm having trouble figuring out what an AR pistol or even an SBR does better than an AR rifle or a full capacity handgun. An AR pistol without a stock or with a brace, has a long range capable cartridge, but isn't easily able to be steadily aimed to utilize at longer range. It seems to me that the premium placed on compact and quickly presented has too many utilization drawbacks.

I just think a 14.5" barrel with a pinned muzzle device and a collapsable stock is compact enough and doesn't give up lots of longer range ability, and that an AR pistol isn't as good as a 17 round mag sidearm up close. It's often said a pistol is for fighting your way to your rifle, and if you've chosen an AR pistol, you have no plans to fight your way to a rifle.

What are the situations AR pistols really shine? In automobiles?

They are handy in a confined space.I have a Colt MK18 select fire rifle with a 10.3 inch barrel all factory Colt.HTH

And there's pearls of wisdom in this video from Clint Smith past the 1:03 moment. It's not directly about pistol vs SBR, but you will not have the same difficulties mentioned in this video with an AR pistol/SBR compared to someone with a pistol.

If SBRs are so essential to “close quarters” why does Delta, Devgru, SAD, HRT and every unit that does it for a living do it at a high level with essentially a 16 inch gun?

Answer- It’s a response that has been handed down for eons as fact and it simply isn’t so. If it were better, the guys that do it day in and day out would be running unsuppressed 11.5s. They have zero issues running them at a high level at 16 inches.

SBRs shine in executive protection, suppressed and inside of vehicles. Other than that, it’s a choice. And that’s fine. But, there is no real, articulated reason of exactly what “close quarters” maneuver that it does better.

Lot of 10.3" MK18s and 11.5" Commandos in use out there, granted mostly suppressed but they are getting used.

If I'm running a suppressor, I'd rather it be on an SBR. If I'm clearing a house, I'm probably also wearing full gear with ear pro and again, I'd want an SBR. If I'm in an urban environment and fighting out of a vehicle I'd rather have an SBR.

If I'm checking the back yard at night I'd probably rather have a 16 inch gun. Same if I'm in some sandy part of the world and might need to reach out 200 yards or more. It's all about what your specific needs are and what fills those needs best at that time.

I can say with firsthand knowledge that within a hundred yards 5.56 out of a SBR is extremely effective. There really isn't much handier than a short rifle or shotgun for short distance shooting.