quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
Thanks for the response, Bisley.

I stared at your post for a while, trying to think it through -- why should a longer gas tube affect recoil, and I came up with an alternate theory, which might or might not hold water.

Isn't it the case that a longer gas tube would likely be associated with a longer barrel? Longer barrel means more weight. More weight means less perceived recoil. Sort of like the difference between firing .357 magnum round from a 686, vs. firing the same round from a lightweight J-frame. Or am I going down the wrong track here?

It has more to do with the pressure at the gas port, and the obturation of the case to the chamber walls during extraction.

Ah, thank you Bisley and Indiana. There's more to this than meets the eye.

Once again, my thought process has tended toward oversimplification.

I think you are getting too complicated with 18" barrels and wylde chambers. A "rifle for the house" to me says a professionally assembled upper of known good quality with a 5.56 chamber, 16" barrel and carbine or mid-length gas.

I'll take a 16" Colt or LMT carbine gas upper over a lesser quality mid-length upper. However, BCM, DD, Spikes and the PSA "premium" line (or at least not the "Freedom" and PTAC line) are all good choices for a 16" middy of good quality.

http://palmettostatearmory.com...or-ch-516445149.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com...m-13-5-m-lok-an.html

https://www.bravocompanyusa.co...-bfh-elw-mcmr-13.htm

Email sent!

quote:

Originally posted by tlbailey1:
Email sent!

Received, and replied.

Now I'm curious!

If I were going to just buy one AR for general purposes, I'd get a Colt 6920 OEM 1, then slap my favorite stock, grip and handguard on it. You wouldn't have a bunch of parts laying around that you didn't want. They are about a hundred dollars more than the Smith and Wesson or the Ruger, but they are better guns, too. My favorite rifle manufacturer is BCM. I'm not a Colt fanboy, but they do make a GOOD rifle, especially when you factor in the rock bottom pricing on ARs these days. They can be a little "challenged" cosmetically, however. Most of the Colts I have owned would be considered blems by other manufacturers, and reduced in price. Colt handles their products pretty roughly in their manufacturing facility.

If you need parts. I have a used colt 4 position buffer tube,colt hand guards, colt trigger guard, a2 grip and maybe a stock I can send your way.

quote:

Originally posted by gambit123:
If you need parts. I have a used colt 4 position buffer tube,colt hand guards, colt trigger guard, a2 grip and maybe a stock I can send your way.

Thanks for the offer. Not sure yet what I'll need.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
I think you are getting too complicated with 18" barrels and wylde chambers. A "rifle for the house" to me says a professionally assembled upper of known good quality with a 5.56 chamber, 16" barrel and carbine or mid-length gas.

]

Totally agree.

A nice Smith & Wesson for $700

https://www.cdnnsports.com/smi...__SID=U#.WhCcCVWnF0w

I understand the fun of assembling your own - that can come later...

----------------------------------------

--------------------------------------

I have not even counted the number of posters in this thread who have given me the unsolicited advice to buy a rifle.

Please, read the original post. The whole idea here, is that I was given all the components of a lower, as generous karma offerings, by forum members.

Note that I did not set out to buy a rifle. I did not solicit any advice re buying a rifle.

I stated, in the original post, that I am the recipient of an AR lower and a parts kit, and it was, and still is, my intention to turn these items into a complete AR rifle.

Perhaps this particular post, the one that I am writing now, belongs in the rant section. I always find it aggravating to see posts in a thread that clearly indicate that those who are writing, either did not bother to read the original post, or maybe have a bit of a problem with comprehension.

My purpose in starting this thread was to solicit advice re completing the rifle for which I was given a "starter kit." Please stay out of this thread if you are trying to take it in a different direction. Feel free to start your own thread if you like.

---

My rant notwithstanding, I would like to express my sincere appreciation to all of you who did offer advice and shared knowledge in keeping with my original stated purpose. Thank you for that!

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I have not even counted the number of posters in this thread who have given me the unsolicited advice to buy a rifle.

Please, read the original post. The whole idea here, is that I was given all the components of a lower, as generous karma offerings, by forum members.

Note that I did not set out to buy a rifle. I did not solicit any advice re buying a rifle.

I stated, in the original post, that I am the recipient of an AR lower and a parts kit, and it was, and still is, my intention to turn these items into a complete AR rifle.

Perhaps this particular post, the one that I am writing now, belongs in the rant section. I always find it aggravating to see posts in a thread that clearly indicate that those who are writing, either did not bother to read the original post, or maybe have a bit of a problem with comprehension.

My purpose in starting this thread was to solicit advice re completing the rifle for which I was given a "starter kit." Please stay out of this thread if you are trying to take it in a different direction. Feel free to start your own thread if you like.

---

My rant notwithstanding, I would like to express my sincere appreciation to all of you who did offer advice and shared knowledge in keeping with my original stated purpose. Thank you for that!

You're pretty snippy for someone who knows absolutely nothing about ARs.

Plus your initial post - is poorly written. While you do say - "I expect that I'll have an AR lower on its way to me soon" and that you will likely be assembling a rifle - you also mention "discussing what kind of rifle I should go shopping for". Your. Words. Exactly.

You also say later "Where do I go from here? I'm going to sit back and listen for a while, I expect that there will be a lot of advice coming my way."

So apparently you're one of those guys who asks for advice but doesn't really want to listen.

Kinda worthless on a 'Discussion Board'.

Maybe re-name the thread: 'Advice on Assembling an AR Parts Kit'

=================================================

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
You're pretty snippy for someone who knows absolutely nothing about ARs.

"Snippy." Yes. You are correct. I am guilty as charged. The only defense I offer is, I was tired and irritable. Then, I read yet another suggestion that I spend seven hundred bucks to buy a rifle, when that was not, in fact, what the original post was about.

I apologize for the snippy language. With a little more effort, I could have expressed the same thought more politely. Nobody has ever accused me of being too diplomatic.

quote:

Plus your initial post - is poorly written. While you do say - "I expect that I'll have an AR lower on its way to me soon" and that you will likely be assembling a rifle - you also mention "discussing what kind of rifle I should go shopping for". Your. Words. Exactly.

Yes, those are my words, but they are taken out of context. The exact words, reproduced here via the magic of cut-and-paste, are:

quote:

Taken directly from the original post:

I just won dwd1985's karma, so I expect that I'll have an AR lower on its way to me soon.

Now, I’ll need an education re what components I need to add to this karma, to make the rifle.

I do not think there is any ambiguity there. None. Whatsoever.

I think that it's pretty clear that I am receiving (have received, in fact) an AR lower, and am requesting information re turning that into a complete rifle.

As it turns out, suggestions received in this thread have helped me identify a complete, as in "ready to attach to the lower and shoot" upper assembly from Palmetto State for $329.00, including shipping, no ups, no extras, just a bit over three hundred bucks. That's $329.00, as opposed to seven hundred.

About half way down the first page of this thread, RichardC helpfully pointed out the free AR classes offered by Florida Gun Exchange, once a month or so. The November offering was today. I made the drive, car-pooling with another forum member. The promised 1.5 hour class stretched to almost 2.5 hours and was really informative. A rifle was taken apart, step-by-step, for inspection and cleaning.

The class leader / instructor was a gunsmith, he had quite a few techniques for simplifying some of the steps, showed us what to look for in parts that wear, and how to detect problem areas and potential failures. A free class; if the entry fee were $25 or so, I probably would have hesitated to attend, but after the fact I believe that it would have been well worth it.

When he opened the Q&A session after the planned lecture / demonstration, I mentioned my situation: I was the recipient of everything needed to produce a basic lower, and I questioned him on the upper assembly that I had identified. His response, after looking at Palmetto State's description, was that it would do a fine job, producing a very capable entry level rifle. Certainly not sophisticated, certainly not competition level, but absolutely nothing wrong with it as a starter. He also stated that it was "plug and play" in terms of compatibility with the lower that I have received as a gift, thanks to dwd1985, Johnny3eagles, and Riley.

Placed in this context, I was a bit irritated to see yet another piece of advice essentially telling me to ignore the gifts that I have received, and spend more than twice as much for a store-bought complete rifle.

Yup, my reply was snippy. You are correct about that. I will stand fast with the ideas that I expressed, but I do apologize for the tone that I used. Can we still be friends?

somewhere in this thread I advised what I think you should do. I'll repeat it. Go buy a reputable complete 5.56 upper. PSA would not be my choice but others have been happy. Get it from a first tier vendor if you have the money but if not move down the ladder.
carbine or mid is a very minor issue.
Have fun, shoot a zillion rounds, be happy.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
somewhere in this thread I advised what I think you should do. I'll repeat it. Go buy a reputable complete 5.56 upper. PSA would not be my choice but others have been happy. Get it from a first tier vendor if you have the money but if not move down the ladder.
carbine or mid is a very minor issue.
Have fun, shoot a zillion rounds, be happy.

Yup. That is the plan. Buy a complete upper, don't mess around trying to put one together, just get one that's ready to plug and play.

I live just a few minutes from Spike's Tactical manufacturing facility, with the showroom / sales room in front, so I stopped in to see what they have. Sticker shock! A complete upper, just the bare essentials, their entry level, starts at six hundred bucks and goes up from there, depending on just what you want.

I have spoken with maybe a couple dozen people to date, about this, some in person, some right here on the forum. It seems to be running pretty close to 50-50. About half the people suggest something other than, a bit more upscale than, PSA. Others say that PSA is certainly not the very best, but it is a solid value for entry-level quality, and certainly good enough to get my feet wet.

I have not yet encountered anybody who says "it's junk, stay away from it." Just suggestions that there is better, out there.

I guess whatever you do in life, there's always better. The V-Tail is a really fine airplane, but there are bigger, better, faster ones. However, other than the lack of de-icing equipment, not really a factor here in the southeast, the V-Tail has completed every flight I have asked it to, for almost thirty years, including traveling to teach all over the eastern two-thirds of the U.S. Most every state east of the Rockies. Orlando to Chicago, to Boston, lots of commuting to the NYC area, Texas, etc.

Similarly, it is pretty clear that there are nicer, better, choices than PSA, but I have not yet heard any negative specifics. There is a complete upper with stainless steel barrel and Magpul sights sitting in my Shopping Cart right now. I haven't clicked on "CheckOut" yet, but unless I see something with more bang for the buck in the next few days, I'll probably buy this one.

I do not see a lot of sense in throwing a bunch of extra dollars at this project right now. I would like to get into the game with a very modest budget, gain some experience and insight, and then decide if something nicer is the way to go.

That said, if anybody has any negative facts re the PSA product, please let me know ASAP, before I spend the money.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
That said, if anybody has any negative facts re the PSA product, please let me know ASAP, before I spend the money.

I know your last sentence asks for negative PSA comments but I don't have anything negative to say. Similar to you, I wanted an AR but didn't want to spend a ton. This year from PSA I bought 2 complete lowers and then 2 complete uppers and married them together. I also bought slings, scopes and BUIS for one of them. I've got $1,100 in both complete rifles and they work great for my needs.

The only negative thing I had happen was one of the lowers had an issue with the fire control group/trigger. It would fire, but every other round would not fire. I contacted PSA, they sent me a prepaid shipping label and I sent the lower back. Within a week I had the lower back and a nice letter from the person who determined the FCG was bad. He had replaced the FCG with a new one and since then both rifles work great for me.

From what I'm reading, for your needs, a PSA rifle should suit you just fine. Here are my 2, one with the keymod upper and black barrel, the other with the Magpul upper with stainless barrel.

I’ve only fired a few hundred through my PSA upper with Spikes lower and PSA lower kit and it shoots fine. My primary is a Daniel Defense carbine but it was also double or better money.

http://palmettostatearmory.com...t-set-516447166.html

PSA BlackFriday upper specials are starting. I think you’d have a good time with the above linked upper.

I have two of the PSA uppers. One is a PSA premium upper and the other is a freedom upper. I have had exactly ZERO issues with either of them.
In other words, PSA is good stuff. It's not like you're taking it to combat, so to learn with they're absolutely fine.

I think that I have identified the complete upper that will do the job for me.

Residual aftereffects of my bout with Guillain Barré, not quite two years ago, have left me with reduced dexterity and hand strength. In other words, I am a bit of a "special needs" kid.

Fondling a couple of AR-15s this past weekend, I found that I was able to operate the charging handle, but it was not always easy.

Classic firearms has an upper assembly with dual charging methods: the standard AR type, plus one on the right side. Stainless barrel, M-LOK rail The price is right, everything I need other than sights. Amazon has Magpul MBUS for sixty-six bucks right now.

Classic Firearms Upper Receiver.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I think that I have identified the complete upper that will do the job for me.

Residual aftereffects of my bout with Guillain Barré, not quite two years ago, have left me with reduced dexterity and hand strength. In other words, I am a bit of a "special needs" kid.

Fondling a couple of AR-15s this past weekend, I found that I was able to operate the charging handle, but it was not always easy.

Classic firearms has an upper assembly with dual charging methods: the standard AR type, plus one on the right side. Stainless barrel, M-LOK rail The price is right, everything I need other than sights. Amazon has Magpul MBUS for sixty-six bucks right now.

Classic Firearms Upper Receiver.

V-Tail...That upper looks like a winner with the side charging handle, .223 Wylde chambering and SS barrel. It is just the ticket for ease of use for you with the lingering health issues...plus it looks kool ...

Where are you on magazines with whit to feed it?...shoot me an email with your address (my email address is in my profile) and I'll instant KARMA you a few different types to get started and help choosing others

quote:

Originally posted by Bisleyblackhawk:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I think that I have identified the complete upper that will do the job for me.

Residual after effects of my bout with Guillain Barré, not quite two years ago, have left me with reduced dexterity and hand strength. In other words, I am a bit of a "special needs" kid.

Fondling a couple of AR-15s this past weekend, I found that I was able to operate the charging handle, but it was not always easy.

Classic firearms has an upper assembly with dual charging methods: the standard AR type, plus one on the right side. Stainless barrel, M-LOK rail The price is right, everything I need other than sights. Amazon has Magpul MBUS for sixty-six bucks right now.

Classic Firearms Upper Receiver.

V-Tail...That upper looks like a winner with the side charging handle, .223 Wylde chambering and SS barrel. It is just the ticket for ease of use for you with the lingering health issues...plus it looks kool ...

Where are you on magazines with whit to feed it?...shoot me an email with your address (my email address is in my profile) and I'll instant KARMA you a few different types to get started and help choosing others

Bisley, you have mail. Thank you for the generous offer. I will take you up on it!

I did place the order, just now, for the upper that we mentioned.

Other progress: The gentleman who runs the aviation maintenance business in the hangar opposite mine, is very experienced in metalworking (he does airframe repair, as well as engine work). He is also very experienced with firearms. The naked lower receiver that was gifted to me by dwd1985 and Johnny3eagles, is in his capable hands, to have the hole for the grip screw repaired.

Once that is done, I will start working with Riley's gift of the lower parts kit.

The upper, as I mentioned, is now on order.

Amazon has Magpul MBUS sights for $66 / set (front and rear), and just for kicks, I am buying an inexpensive red dot reflex that forum member Aguilar is offering in the classified section.

Bisley has offered a starter set of assorted magazines, so that I can determine what type suites me.

I guess all that is needed now is to put everything together and go test it.

A friend gave me a box of Russian ammunition, but I have been warned away from steel case. I'll probably order a case of Federal American Eagle before the rebate runs out on December 31.

Once again, I would like to thank all the forum members who have gifted me with parts to get me going on my first rifle, and also those who have given advice and encouragement.

I'll update this thread with photos as I go along, and probably more questions and requests for advice.