quote:

Originally posted by Accomplice:
$3,799 MSRP for the 16S is crazy in light of the glut of 5.56 options on the market.

Wow. A person can buy 2 quality AR15s for that.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by Accomplice:
$3,799 MSRP for the 16S is crazy in light of the glut of 5.56 options on the market.

Wow. A person can buy 2 quality AR15s for that.

I sold my SCAR 16 to partially fund my SCAR 20S initial release limited edition package. To me the SCAR 16 is a great rifle, but frankly it’s not great enough to justify its price in my opinion. The SCAR 17 though really is in a different league though. In my opinion there is nothing else at the same level in terms of .308 rifles. To me, my SCAR 17 feels almost M4 light, maneuverable enough for doing entry work if need be, and feels more like the modern intermediate round rifles in use by most militaries than a “battle rifle.” To me, most all of the other .308 rifles out there feel way heavier, not as maneuverable and frankly they make me feel like they could only be relegated to a DMR type role. My SIG 751 SAPR would be my second choice for a general purpose .308 rifle, but even as much as I love it, and despite the fact that it cost double what my SCAR 17 did, I’d still grab the SCAR 17 first. The 17 is really the sweet spot of where the SCAR platform makes sense in my opinion.

I've shot a fair number of AR-10s and AR-15s types in training courses, including SCAR 16 and 17. I've shot many of them side-by-side. The SCARs are decent rifles, but I think there are better DI options out there.

SCAR 17 -- new MSRP of $3,999. Weighs 8.9 pounds.
Wilson Combat Recon Tactical 308 -- new MSRP of $3,384. A little patience provides a 10-15% discount on Wilson's sales that occur 3 or 4 times per year. Weighs 7 pounds 14 ounces. Pick their ultralite version and the weight drops to 7 pounds 5 ounces, but the MSRP increases to $3,502.

Should a person want uber accuracy from a WC 308, they can jump to their Super Sniper model. MSRP $3,358 for the 20" fluted heavy profile barrel, weighs 9 pounds.

I can definitely state that WC accuracy is head and shoulders better than SCAR. My WCs have choked only when instructors blindly added non-functioning rounds in my mags -- for training drills. WC recoil pulse isn't harsh. WC rifles have never been known to eat optics. They balance well while carried and shot from less-than-stable positions.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by Accomplice:
$3,799 MSRP for the 16S is crazy in light of the glut of 5.56 options on the market.

Wow. A person can buy 2 quality AR15s for that.

An XCR can be had for $1,600 and it compares well. You can have 3 ARX100s, 3 Makasis, 3 Galil Aces, 2 Spear LTs, numerous Colts, etc. I’m not a big DI guy but I’ve been picking up NIB Colts for $630 on gunbroker. Heck, I even got an Sig 556xi for $630 recently. There’s no need to drop $2k on a 5.56 rifle let alone $3,700+.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
I've shot a fair number of AR-10s and AR-15s types in training courses, including SCAR 16 and 17. I've shot many of them side-by-side. The SCARs are decent rifles, but I think there are better DI options out there.

SCAR 17 -- new MSRP of $3,999. Weighs 8.9 pounds.
Wilson Combat Recon Tactical 308 -- new MSRP of $3,384. A little patience provides a 10-15% discount on Wilson's sales that occur 3 or 4 times per year. Weighs 7 pounds 14 ounces. Pick their ultralite version and the weight drops to 7 pounds 5 ounces, but the MSRP increases to $3,502.

Should a person want uber accuracy from a WC 308, they can jump to their Super Sniper model. MSRP $3,358 for the 20" fluted heavy profile barrel, weighs 9 pounds.

I can definitely state that WC accuracy is head and shoulders better than SCAR. My WCs have choked only when instructors blindly added non-functioning rounds in my mags -- for training drills. WC recoil pulse isn't harsh. WC rifles have never been known to eat optics. They balance well while carried and shot from less-than-stable positions.

I’ll have to give a Wilson Combat 308 a shot some time if I get the chance, I’ve honestly never fired one of their 308 guns. I love, and even own a couple, Wilson pistols, so I know they produce a quality product. Based on my experiences though the numbers on the SCAR don’t tell the whole story. To me at least it just feels considerably lighter and slimmer and more maneuverable. I’ve shot 308 AR rifles by LMT, HK 417 and 762 variants, Noveske and B&T, and none felt as good to me as a general purpose rifle that would be equally at home clearing rooms as it would be engaging man sized targets from the prone at 600 yards. For that matter, I haven’t handled the new SCAR rifles yet, so something in their sauce might have changed too. And I’m not just an FN fanboy either, one of my favorite small rifles is my B&T APC223 and I have a fondness for B&T and HK in general and I’ve got a bunch of DI ARs too, so I’m largely brand agnostic. I value your perspective and your posts so I will definitely prioritize getting my hands on a Wilson 308 AR to try out, but topping the SCAR 17 will definitely be a tall order for me.

Each time Wilson puts their AR10s on sale, I think I should buy one. Most likely in 6.5CM. Then I realize I'd also want another scope with ELD glass, essentially doubling the cash outlay. Then I realize I have Black Rain Ordnance-based AR10s in 6CM and 6.5CM that don't see much shooting. So....I don't own a WC AR10. Maybe some day.

I do wish the SCAR 17 had an option for the 20S (longer) factory MLOK hand guards.

In terms WC or other options, or buying 3 rifles instead of 1 expensive one… we’re blessed to live in a time when options exist. I bought my first rifle in the 90s during the ridiculous AWB and feel very fortunate to have so many modern choices now. Budget isn’t my primary concern, and I don’t care at all what other people do with their money.

I will look at WC, I know they make quality products, but I really like my 16 and there’s novelty in having non-AR platforms.

How many AR-15's do most of us own?

If you own 1 it's an easy choice for the AR.

If you own 3,4 or 5 AR-15's (maybe I'm Wrong but I'd be a BUNCH of us do) maybe instead of your 3rd or 4th AR you should invest in a SCAR.

Is a SCAR 3 times as good as an AR-15, NO. Is it in some ways a little better than an AR? In my OPINION Yes.

So if you can only afford an AR-15 by all means enjoy an AR-15 and don't feel the least bit handicapped.

If you can afford several AR-15's maybe instead of repeating yourself try a SCAR and see if you like it even better.

You can only shoot one of them at a time. Both of them are excellent weapons worthy of your enjoyment...........

It is pretty dumb that they retained the proprietary mag for the 17, IMO. Is there a good reason for that?

No idea but its an easy fix if it bugs you (but costs money obviously).
I'm suprised that no one has mentioned what I consdier the defining feature of the SCAR which is adjustable gas jets. That is truly the game changer for shooting suppressed.

Yeah, I know the aftermarket provides alternative receivers. It just seems counterintuitive to provide a "new-and-improved" rifle that doesn't address something like that.

They deliberately state that the new SCAR rifles are compatible with flow-through silencers. They don't say "only", but they may as well. Weird. Why is the SCAR the only gun in the world that has a bizarre allergic reaction to silencers?

I wonder what they have experienced in testing that informed their original decision to discourage silencer use, and their new position of only promoting flow-through cans. Of course one could argue it's more-or-less a non-issue, because low pressure silencers have pretty much become the standard now.

I think its just FN doesn't care too much about the civilian market. My local range ran a suppressed scar in their rental program but not a low pressure one. I told them to change the gas jets but they didn't. But on any AR they rent with a suppressor they can tell you about all the things they changed to get it to run. I don't think its the only gun that doesn't like suppressors in any way shape or form. Many of them need some help technically. But anyway after nearly 5K rounds without any maintenance the SCAR died and they sent it to FN who said 'not on us'. It seemed reasonable to me. SCAR's have a reputation for killing cheap optics and nobody really complains about that. If you put the right gas jet in the gun you can run any kind of suppressor you want. And I believe that contrary to internet lore that if that failure is unrelated to the suppressor FN will fix it. But I have a lot of SCAR's and a lot of suppressed rounds and I have not had any issues. FWIW>

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
SCAR's have a reputation for killing cheap optics and nobody really complains about that.

Oh, They will eat expensive ones too! :-)

Mine ate a Swarovski Z6 in a Larue mount.........

Not strictly on topic, but what happened with this Swarovski? Did you send it back? resolution?
I'm a nightforce person so that's what's been on my SCAR's without issue, but a Z6 is a top tier optic.

The Swaro z6i and sister Kahles k16i are not combat optics. They are geared toward 3-gun. There were reports of both being used by units with the ability to use such things in the GWOT, with both reportedly being fragile and prone to failure under combat conditions. It’s not surprising that a SCAR are a z6i. A friend had the same issue with a k16i mounted on an HK23e.

I'm in for the 17S when it becomes available.

The weight of it is a concern not to mention the fact that I can't find any mags online. I hope they are planning on releasing ALOT of mags when these rifles start showing up.