I picked up a Daniel Defense M4V7 with a 16” barrel recently, I’ve been wanting to get an AR that is not in the NFA registry. (Have two others but they’re sbr’s.) This guns role is just a general self defense, range use piece. It feels huge to me after being so accustomed to the SBR’s. I can’t figure out what type of optic it needs. I seriously doubt I’ll ever shoot out to 300 yards with it. Does that rule out a LPVO ? It feels like such a huge rifle for a red dot, but I realize that’s in my head. Maybe a red dot with a 3x magnifier? Help me with some pros & cons of going red dot vs. LPVO.
Thanks!

I have identical red dots (Aimpoint Comp M5) on a 11.5 and a 16. I have an 3x magnifier on the 16 but can easily move it to the 11.5 if I want to. I like the flexibility but the combo is a bit clunky.

I like red dots for what they are good at - infinite eye relief and no "eye box".

But LPVO's are pretty compelling for a general purpose rifle now that you can get a 1-6 FFP or 1-8 FFP for a decent price. Primary Arms does a great job at a reasonable price. In a higher end gun like a DD or Geissele or HK, I would probably go with Nightforce. Vortex has stuff at many price points, higher price to get the good stuff, and Sig has some decent stuff. Then you get up to the Euro stuff at the high end. Schmidt & Bender and Swarovski and similar. Most can get pretty close to true 1x enough for both eyes open use, but eye relief and eye box vary so make sure you get something you are able to be consistent with and not lose the image too much.

Eventually I'll put a Nightforce NXS 1-8 on something that deserves it, or maybe the Primary Arms PLx 1-8 when they release the new version.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lefty Sig,

It's hard to beat the speed of the unlimited eye relief in a red dot at less than 100 yards. A magnifier will extend the useful range.

At 300 yds, a proper reticle in an LPVO will give you more precision than a magnifier behind a red dot, but either option should work fine.

Beyond 300 yds is where the LPVO outshines the red dot plus magnifier.

As long as you're considering a red dot, also consider a holographic sight, i.e, Eotech. The holographic sight is especially advantageous for those with astigmatism or red-green colorblindness. The main disadvantage is the shorter battery life, compared to a red dot.

I have a Vortex Strikefire II on my 16" my only knock on it is that its a bit tall & bulky for a red dot.

If I were going to put a LPVO, I'd probably grab a Strike Eagle 1-4 since this rarely will get used at over 50yds.

The LPVO is for more than just shooting at distance. If it's a defensive gun, it's going to have an advantage in collecting information and positively identifying a threat. I recall an anecdote from another forum where a police officer chose not to fire because when he looked through the LPVO, he saw people some distance up the street directly behind the target. Maybe it's only a true story in that it's true that it is a story, but it's something to consider.

I agree with DaBigBR. Magnification is worth having on anything that's not strictly an indoor, home defense CQB rig.

a 3x fixed is a good middle ground -- helps with the 100+ yd shots decently

and not hard to 'learn' for close range

a TA-33 ACOG is pricey but very versatile

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I run LVPO on 14.3 so why not 16?
I have an eotech on a 16 with no magnification.
I also have 3x on 13.7 with a red dot.


I have a buddy who runs an lvpo and a micro red dot offset on his 10.

I don't think barrel length really determines the optic as much as your intended use does.

quote:

Originally posted by Nickelsig229:
I don't think barrel length really determines the optic as much as your intended use does.

Bingo.

Start with intended use. Expected target size & type. Accuracy requirements. Speed to engage. Weight requirements. Eyesight capabilities. And whatever else is important.

I've seen iron sights on 24" barrel ARs. I've seen mid-power scopes on SBRs. And many options in between.

I would look at the Trijicon options. I know NF is the one that most will recommend. But there are other great options. Especially in you prefer USA made options.

Good points

Kind of "old school" these days but well proven reliable & rugged. Trijicon ACOG.
I prefer the TA 110 either green or red reticle. It'll do just about anything you need an optic to do on a combat rifle.

As with most things, sometimes you just gotta give it a lick and see if you like it.

That can mean buying a few different things and keeping what works.
I sell off what doesn't work out pretty quick. I take a small hit so it's kinda like renting it.

I had a new Vortex Diamondback that I thought was going to sit on my shelf forever.
It sold in a week, I took a $75 hit on it.

There are more than a few LPVO's available now days from a few hundred to $1,600 for a Kahles 1-6
The Sig Tango-MSR 1-6x24 seems decent and comes with the mount.
I just seen that they have a 1-10x28 SFP with a 34mm tube for $499
The 34mm tube seems a bit much though for a set and forget kind of scope.

I picked up a Primary Arms 1-6x24 for my GP AR15 and a 1-8 for my .308 AR a couple of years ago.
The .308 wound up with a 4-16 scope and I put the 1-8 on the AR15.

Sold off the 1-6 and Vortex.

Big fan of red dots and magnifiers.

I like low powered variable scopes with illuminated reticals. Your budget is the deciding factor.
1-4
1-6
1-8
1-10

I enjoy the ACOG on my 16” gun.

As I have said in other threads, I am a fan of the Elcan Specter 1x/4x. I also like an Aimpoint Micro with a 3x magnifier, so long as the magnifier can be easily removed from the weapon. Magnification is, in my opinion, vital. Budget is a huge factor, in considering optics, and the options I just mentioned are not cheap.

I respect the ACOGs, and used to have the TA31 model. My thinking was different then, and I decided to part with it; a now somewhat regrettable decision. However, I am considering the non-fiber optic model with iron sights on top, as I have grown to appreciate the irons on the Specter.

EoTech is worth considering, if you ever intend to use night vision with your optics.

My appreciation of the Specter has made it so I haven't ventured much into the more "conventional" LVPO optics.

So long as you have a true 1x and no less than 3x magnification available, and it's not made in China, you'll be good-to-go, IMO.

Kinda in the same boat - a 16" 6.8 got a red dot as anything more than 125 hunting in broken woodlands was further than you could clearly see game.

I'm putting together a different cartridge and a 2X would do for fairly close - not a complete screen full of fur - or out to 300, where drop on that cartridge gets significant.

I'd like an LPVO yet the makers are moving away from the simple ones - by the time I get it all done there may not be any.

A lot of magnification is nice, having had a 3x9 on a .30-06 I found I just left it dialed down hunting and never actually shot it over 200m - where I zeroed it. If a lot of long range shooting is planned, then 6x and up would be useful. Unlike precision shooting tho the center of mass on whitetail is an 18" circle - a 2MOA milspec gun is more than good enough for what ranges I actually see them.

Goes to what you know you will do because that's what you do, and match the scope to enjoy it.

Simple, value scopes will be around and they keep coming out with more.

The Sig 1-6 tango MSR is $10 more than the Primary Arms and comes with a mount and throw lever.
The scopes have an alignment mark for centering to the mount as well.

Self defense and range use?

Hard to claim self defense if the perp is over 300 meters away and it's not that hard to hit someone at 300 meters even with iron sights.

Being in the same boat for a couple of ARs I have, I opted for a Sig Romeo 5 red dot, 2MOA with backup iron sights co witnessed.