Has anyone heard anything about the bolt on the 7.62x39 version of the LT? MAC said the rifle was "designed around different kinds of (7.62x39) ammo" but didn't go into any detail about bolt design elements to accommodate the larger cartridge case.

The Spear is here. Several vendors on Gunbroker are auctioning off their stock. Highest I’ve seen so far is $3100 which puts it at SCAR 16 street price, but still being a better rifle. 5.56 only so far and only 16” rifles.

Avoid Guns.com for the moment. They win the “Fuck You!” Award for trying to rape customers at the LOW LOW price of $4100…

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
Could be wrong, but I think it’s chrome lined with a nitrided exterior.

Nope, there is no such thing. Can't salt bath nitride a chrome lined barrel.

The simple fact is that semi-automatic rifle designs often take a long time to work out all the issues.

M16/M4 took a few revisions to get it right. Now after 50+ years in service it's very reliable.

Buying any newly designed semi-auto rifle is a crap shoot. Until it is fielded by a military and put to hard use, and all the kinks are worked out, the likelihood of issues is pretty high.

Piston action AR's are theoretically more reliable than DI guns, but it doesn't always work out that way in reality. There are so many different piston systems out there and they have varying levels of real world use. The 416 is pretty proven in real world use and now is standard Marine issue. The others, not so much.

The MCX is a copy of the AR-18 action. But it still had kinks that had to be worked out. Military fielding and experience has resulted in the Gen 2 and Gen 3 guns. Gen 3 is probably going to be fine. If it had been ONLY a civilian gun, we might still be at Gen 1 because civilian guns often don't get shot much and thus the kinks aren't discovered until later.

Realistically, don't buy a new semi-auto rifle platform until it's been fielded by a military, and proven out over about a decade. You also need the installed base in a military to ensure the platform has "legs" and will be supported with spare parts over the long term.

I accidentally found one at an LGS in 7.62x39 at sticker price on Thursday. I didn’t get to crack it open, but compared to the 16” Virtus I looked at earlier in the year, Sig did some very nice weight savings. I know the specs say they removed 1/2#, but it feels a like a lot more than that. It’s also a rifle that I wouldn’t want to change anything out on. I’d definitely take it over a piston AR and over a SCAR L.

I’m not sure how well this would scale down as a pistol/SBR. While at rifle length the weight is reasonable, I’m thinking about 90% of the weight would remain at 11.5.”

Was not able get a look at the bolt, nor am I sure what reliable magazines are out their for the x39 ARs.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
The Spear is here. Several vendors on Gunbroker are auctioning off their stock. Highest I’ve seen so far is $3100 which puts it at SCAR 16 street price, but still being a better rifle. 5.56 only so far and only 16” rifles.

Avoid Guns.com for the moment. They win the “Fuck You!” Award for trying to rape customers at the LOW LOW price of $4100…

I’ve been watching completed auctions on gunbroker and a dozen Scars (most/maybe all? Used) have gone for between $2,200-$2,600 lately. Apparently the economy is hammering guns sales so maybe these new Spears will come down quickly once the first pool of buyers gets satiated.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
Tired of chasing SiG generations and parts for the new versions not compatible with the older models.

It really is kind of amazing how highly backwards compatible and retrofittable the AR15 platform is where you take for granted the ability for parts made in the 60's be compatible with parts made yesterday.

On the other hand...the SIG MPX/MCX series couldn't last a couple of years before they're turned into legacy models. And for some reason they continue to win contracts.

A fair amount of parallel discussion in this thread as one I started earlier this year asking for recommendations for a 5.56 rifle that wasn't an AR. A good AR is about impossible to beat unless you just want something different, and if you do, the SIG and their constant revisions doesn't inspire confidence for a civilian consumer. Yes, they keep updating and, I guess, improving the design. The only entities that appeal to are government, who can afford the ridiculous budget required to keep up with that nonsense. For most of us here, we just need it to launch a 5.56mm projectile with accuracy and reliability, and since the rifle is so fucking expensive, it would be nice if a buyer knew that they'd be able to obtain parts and have support for the gun for a reasonably long period of time, and that's one place SIG falls down against practically all competitors, and what's more, they've been known for it for over a decade now.

Yeah, I struggle with spending “Scar money” (now just $2,200-$2,600) on anything that might not be as good.

quote:

Originally posted by Accomplice:
Yeah, I struggle with spending “Scar money” (now just $2,200-$2,600) on anything that might not be as good.

I did check on Gunbroker and those prices on SCAR Ls were for used models. The new ones hovered around $3K. It all depends on how SIG keeps this rifle around and how they support it, but it doesn’t look positive.

What’s horrifying is the Spear LT pistols are going for nearly $4K. Definitely don’t need one that badly.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:

quote:

Originally posted by Accomplice:
Yeah, I struggle with spending “Scar money” (now just $2,200-$2,600) on anything that might not be as good.

I did check on Gunbroker and those prices on SCAR Ls were for used models. The new ones hovered around $3K. It all depends on how SIG keeps this rifle around and how they support it, but it doesn’t look positive.

What’s horrifying is the Spear LT pistols are going for nearly $4K. Definitely don’t need one that badly.

Yeah, I don’t want to buy anything at new prices because I’m going to shoot it and instantly it will be used and all that difference between used and new evaporates.

For a Sig Spear LT 5.56 comparison test, which 5 of the guns not yet secured, would you guys want to see included?

Crusader Arms Templar
TommyBuilt G36 clone
B&T APC223 Gen 2
Perun
Geissele Super Duty 14.5 P&W
Sig 556xi
XCR-L
BRN180 16”
Bushmaster ACR
PSA AK-556

FN Scar-secured
Bren 2 Carbine-secured
Galil Ace Gen 2 13” P&W-secured
FM15 13” P&W-secured
Beretta ARX100-secured

I wouldn’t mind the Geissele Super Duty. It would be a great example of a top tier DI gun. I’m not sure about the TommyBuilt since unless you completely toss out cost.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
I wouldn’t mind the Geissele Super Duty. It would be a great example of a top tier DI gun. I’m not sure about the TommyBuilt since unless you completely toss out cost.

Thanks, I edited my post to top 5. I’m def drawn toward including the two you mentioned. I’m honestly leaning toward the first 5 on my list but I want to be sure they’re models people care to see.

Military Arms Channel has a video up on the 7.62x39 Spear Lt:

^^^ That answers my question about the bolt, thanks.

TL;DW: The 7.62x39 bolt head has the same outer diameter as the 5.56 bolt head and consequently the walls around the case head are roughly half as thick on the 7.62x39 bolt as they are on the 5.56 bolt.

This was apparently done to make caliber conversions easier, and any resulting concerns are apparently overcome with proper metallurgy, quality control, and other ill-defined things.

If the guy's claims about both the bolt and accuracy with steel-cased ammunition hold good (not sure what range he used for testing), then SIG will have really accomplished something with this rifle.

And the 7.62 bolt also has 2 ejectors to help get the casing out.

Ever other work around I've heard for an ARish 7.62 has been either using a 7.62x51 NATO bolt, or something like a 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel bolt and make it work.

I'm honestly not trying to be a PITA this late at night, but ejectors, not extractors. Historically ejection hasn't been a problem so much as consistently getting spent cases out of hot, dirty chambers smoothly.

Pretty sure if you read my post it says ejectors, and I haven't edited my post either.

Isn't that what I said?