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Recoil reduction of inertia vs. gas 12ga.? Login/Join 
Experienced Slacker
posted
Researching the topic elsewhere isn't helping as much as I'd hoped.

Let's use 3" slugs as a worst case scenario, and then let's put a percentage of improved recoil reduction to it using a single shot break action as "0" for comparison. I realize it is subjective unless someone out there used really good testing equipment - and I doubt anyone has, but what says the forum?

Example: inertia 30% better, gas 50%...something like that.

Thanks
 
Posts: 6959 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That would be really hard to quantify, not only do the systems themselves vary, but different designs of the same type system as well.

What are we measuring? Foot pounds of "push". It's the impulse that's different, how quick the push gets to your shoulder. I suppose that could be measured too. You COULD get real numbers through electronic measuring devices, but there wouldn't nessisarily be an accurate correlation between them and what a real shooter feels.

You're starting off with variables like the guns weight, then adding things like gun/shooter fit and stock design which are both HUGE in terms of preceived recoil.

Single shots and pump guns would be first, fastest. Inertia second. Gas third.* (obvious to most)

* Short and long recoil fits in there somewhere, but I'm not sure if it's before or after inertia. My long recoil gun is SO different in construction and design than my inertia guns, I'm comparing apples and oranges. That's the problem with the idea. You'd need a gas gun and an inertia gun of the EXACT same weight, with NO stock to remove as many variable as possible.

I could make a complex series of youtube videos on it, but I don't know it would be worth the time for my 14 youtube followers. Wink

ETA: thinking on it more, just the variations in design changes things. I can easily feel the difference in recoil in my Benelli M2's and my SBE/SBE2, that little tiny bit of delay in the longer bolt throw is perceivable in the recoil, shooting the same load in both.


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Posts: 19599 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Appreciate the detailed reply CAS, thanks.

Here's what makes me ask:
During a shotgun class a few weeks ago I had to fire five slugs through my 870. These were 3" Winchesters 1oz. rated at 1760 fps.

If I can avoid re-living that I certainly will.

I had an 11/87 long ago and I really liked shooting it, but cleaning was a different story. Also, I once emptied it so fast the rubber O-ring was just a smear on top of the piston. Still worked without it, but figured I had to order a new one, and didn't like the idea of it disappearing in the first place.

So now I'm very curious about the inertia guns that are out there, but if there isn't much difference from shooting my 870 I reckon I'll save my money.
 
Posts: 6959 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Green grass and
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Not an expert but would venture to say something like a Benelli M2 would soften the hammer effect of your slug scenario 15-20%. So significant imho.



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 17259 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You may not have had a choice on the slugs, getting what there was to be had, but shooting what you did was part of the problem. Shooting them extra-ouchy ones certainly is not helping. Big Grin

Shotgun recoil is an odd thing, like a lot of things the more you do it, the less you notice. It's funny how I can go to the range to test something, shooting 5-15 rounds and the next day my shoulder is tight and really hurts. The following weekend, go shoot a match, fire 200-250 rounds and barely notice. Not anywhere near as sore from from that, as I was from 10 rounds. (shrug)


Dunno about the O-ring thing. I got a used LT1100-20 when I was 16 and didn't need to put a new o-ring in it till I was in my late 40's.


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Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.

 
Posts: 19599 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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agree with the others -- its hard to say

but imo ANY shotgun will benefit from some of the newer 'gel' type recoil pads - like the Limbsaver type

i have one on an M1 Super 90 and it definitely helps

gas guns are noticeable 'softer' than recoil guns

interestingly -- the Beretta 1201 is noticeably worse than the Benelli M1

but i grew up shooting shotguns so I don't think 12 ga is too bad. but i stick with 2 3/4 in shells. have NO desire to play with the 3" + variety Eek

---------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8940 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig209:

but imo ANY shotgun will benefit from some of the newer 'gel' type recoil pads - like the Limbsaver type



Agreed, and I have one on the 870 I was shooting. I loves me some good recoil pad in general.

Those slugs were way worse than my .375 H&H. It left me with a screaming headache as well as a sore shoulder. I found an article from Chuck Hawks on the subject and it seems I was shooting the equivalent perceived recoil of .416 Rigby or thereabouts. Can't say for sure, but that makes sense considering how it felt.
 
Posts: 6959 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig209:

interestingly -- the Beretta 1201 is noticeably worse than the Benelli M1


I have a buddy who had a Mossberg 940 tactical, a gas gun, and shot side by side, I thought it kicked more than the M2. So who knows.


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Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.

 
Posts: 19599 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yeah, that M14 video guy...
Picture of benny6
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This has been my ultimate recoil reduction method. Fugly as hell, but it works! It's a Kynshot hydraulic recoil buffer tube with a SAGE pistol grip and a Magpul buttstock. I shot a couple of boxes of the heaviest buckshot and sabot slugs I could find and it was like shooting target loads.





I tried the Magpul SGA stock with their recoil pad and it was nowhere near the recoil reduction of the Kynshot.



Tony.


Owner, TonyBen, LLC, Type-01 FFL
www.tonybenm14.com (Site under construction).
e-mail: tonyben@tonybenm14.com
 
Posts: 4818 | Location: USA | Registered: February 13, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diablo Blanco
Picture of dking271
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As many have said, there isn’t a set formula and shotgun recoil is fascinating. The mass of the payload, the acceleration of the payload, and the velocity at which it’s launched all play into the perceived recoil felt by the shooter. I shoot thousands of shells a year as an avid hunter and clays shooter. I prefer heavy fast target loads that more closely match the ammo I choose to hunt. I also shoot a bunch of defensive loads through a variety of weapons and will do my best to give my analysis. The weight of the gun also plays into how the recoil feels. My Benelli m4 soaks up recoil almost as much as my a400 Xtreme duck guns with recoil reducing kick-off springs in the stock and both are heavy guns. Shooting the same loads through an Remington 11-87 Police feels a little heavier and shooting the same loads through a Scattergun Tech 870 feels a bit heavier still. I can shoot all of the above mentioned guns as fast as I can operate the trigger/pump and never feel the difference when shooting. The more you shoot shotguns the less you’ll notice the recoil. My guess is that technique and proper mounting have more to do with perceived recoil than the operating system of the gun. I know instantaneously when I fail to get a shotgun into the proper mount the moment the trigger is pulled. Actually, my brain knows it’s a bad mount and will hurt before the trigger is pulled from shooting as frequently as I do.

Pump/double > auto loader > Inertia > Gas


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Posts: 2278 | Location: Middle-TN | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by dking271:
... The more you shoot shotguns the less you’ll notice the recoil. My guess is that technique and proper mounting have more to do with perceived recoil than the operating system of the gun. I know instantaneously when I fail to get a shotgun into the proper mount the moment the trigger is pulled. Actually, my brain knows it’s a bad mount and will hurt before the trigger is pulled from shooting as frequently as I do.

....


totally agree

----------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8940 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
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There actually is a set formula for recoil, but it's pretty useless as there are other factors that count more when it comes to felt recoil.
 
Posts: 8963 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by benny6:
This has been my ultimate recoil reduction method. Fugly as hell, but it works! It's a Kynshot hydraulic recoil buffer tube with a SAGE pistol grip and a Magpul buttstock. I shot a couple of boxes of the heaviest buckshot and sabot slugs I could find and it was like shooting target loads.


Now that's worth looking into, thanks for posting! Smile

I checked Kynshot's site and they even have those for Beretta 1301s. Bet that's a mighty smooth experience. Nothing for Benelli M2 though, which is the current dream I have.
 
Posts: 6959 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Domari Nolo
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Push-pull technique. Push forward with your front/support hand, and pull back with your firing hand. It's effective at managing recoil.



 
Posts: 2169 | Location: York, PA | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
Indiana
Picture of IndianaBoy
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quote:
Originally posted by apprentice:
quote:
Originally posted by Sig209:

but imo ANY shotgun will benefit from some of the newer 'gel' type recoil pads - like the Limbsaver type



Agreed, and I have one on the 870 I was shooting. I loves me some good recoil pad in general.

Those slugs were way worse than my .375 H&H. It left me with a screaming headache as well as a sore shoulder. I found an article from Chuck Hawks on the subject and it seems I was shooting the equivalent perceived recoil of .416 Rigby or thereabouts. Can't say for sure, but that makes sense considering how it felt.



I thought it was a gimmick before I owned one. But the comfortech stock on my Benelli M2 REALLY works well.

A lot is made of the difference in recoil between semi-auto inertia vs. gas operated shotguns. I have owned both and I don't find the difference to be significant. A good stock, however, is HUGE.


A friend of mine bought a very budget semi-auto shotgun and brought it out for a range day. It was NASTY compared to my Benelli. The biggest difference, IMHO, the comfortech stock, particularly the cheek piece that prevents any of that recoil transferring in significant way to my chin.


As for slugs. Buy a case of Fiocchi reduced recoil slugs. They cycle great and they are SUPER mild but only slightly slower, and not in a manner enough to affect terminal effects.


I shoot a lot of 3 gun and it isn't unusual to fire upwards of 200 rounds through my shotgun in a good afternoon.

The Benelli M2 is definitely worth a look. The Beretta 1301 is very popular and good as well.
 
Posts: 13780 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
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Posts: 13780 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Stock fit is also huge, drop and cast can be simple to adjust on some, near impossible without spending more than the gun costs for others.

I had two police trade in M2's and when I got them, compared to my other one, one kicked worse and the other beat the crap out of me. (my face) It only took one to two times shooting them to realize what was wrong. Whomever their armorer was apparently didn't know much about shotgun stocks, or at least Benelli. The adjustment shim plates were backwards / upside down. Set them right and the guns were great.


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Posts: 19599 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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i am in the process of breaking in a 590 Security Mossberg.

I have added the Magpul stock. I did not think I would like it. But Augen here did a trade with me for one and I installed it.

So far I really like it. I have not shot any slugs through it. Not sure if I will. Have run bird shot and some 00buck through it. So far I am more than pleased with it. I have a few more upgrades planned. But as far as recoil is concerned I am golden.

I can recommend the magpul stock. I know there are some mixed reviews, but for me it has been perfect. Fits well, is quality made and does tame recoil a little bit.



"Practice like you want to play in the game"
 
Posts: 17259 | Registered: September 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
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Not much to add, but I do not recommend shooting a 3” magnum load with a hard pistol grip 870.

My hand hurt for three weeks. Pretty much any option mentioned above works better lol

Shooting my .45-70 one-handed was considerably better. Still don’t recommend though Big Grin




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
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Posts: 11250 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris17404:
Push-pull technique. Push forward with your front/support hand, and pull back with your firing hand. It's effective at managing recoil.


Yeah, that HANDGUN technique will work really well with a SHOTGUN. mumble mumble mumble


I've stopped counting.
 
Posts: 4969 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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