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Recoil reduction of inertia vs. gas 12ga.? Login/Join 
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My son loves his Mossberg 930.

It doesn't matter what shotgun I shoot or how I shoot it. A day with the shotgun and my shoulder turns purple and yellow. Always has.
 
Posts: 6650 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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*Update*

Purchased and installed a Kynshot system for my 870 like Benny6 posted above.
Haven't tried it yet, but looking forward to it.

Benny, if you're reading this, can you tell me if yours is the adjustable version and if so how much difference you noticed between settings?

I've got mine set to max reduction (I mean why would you set it lower?) but I can't tell any variation in resistance when I push on it.
 
Posts: 6959 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's hydraulic so the speed in which it moves might be a factor and not something you can simulate by hand.



(edited because for some reason my browser loves to changed hydraulic to hydrophilic, and I never notice. Of course if I'd spell it right the first time and the letters weren't so blurry. Wink )

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Posts: 19600 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Cant really add anything but I will say, if you can, avoid the H&R Topper. Available in 10 Gauge for your shooting pleasure.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: YooperSigs,


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Posts: 13646 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm a Skeet Shooter, so I shoot lots and lots of rounds of shotshells. This year I'm trending towards 10,000 rounds. Note primers are hard to get and this year I'm saving the empty boxes to keep track.

Recoil. According to Newtonian Physics Energy IN will always equal Energy OUT. Aint no way around it unless you have some tricks involving a Black Hole up your sleeve.

What we can change about recoil is the timing of the pulse. There are many ways of doing this.

One primary and effective method is to partially couple the mas of your body to the mass of the gun, because it requires more Energy to move a heavier mass. To boil it down real simple keep the gun FIRMLY against your shoulder. As an RO one of my jobs is to familiarize new shooters who come in for lessons. As a result I recently had the pleasure of shooting a 5 something lbs. polymer Churchill pump with some #7.5 Winchester Hunting shells at 1375 fps per the box. That is a lot stiffer than my preferred 12 ounce Target shells but it didn't hurt a bit nor did it leave a bruise. Because I kept that gun good and tight to my shoulder. Point is if you are shooting a fixed breech shotgun and it hurts, you need to look at your mount. BTW, had that newbie and his son breaking clays before they finished their second box. Turns out that it is possible to to shoot Trap with a 18.5 inch pump gun.

The second method for spreading the recoil impulse out is with a Semi Auto. Mine is a gas gun that doesn't see a lot of use but it does shoot lighter than my O/U guns. My guestimate is it's worth a reduction of 20-30%. You can also install recoil mitigation devices in the stock to spread that recoil impulse out further. As for the intertia guns, I actually expect a similar reduction in perceived recoil but would expect the "feel" to be different.

Note, ALL of this will reduce the rate of fire slightly and in Skeet that can be a small problem. It means that your second shot in a pair won't be as immediate as desired in an ideal world.

However it's not really a big deal unless your shooting for a world championship where just one miss costs it all. BTW, at Worlds a perfect 500 just gets you to the dance. The Dance is the Shoot Off and that competition is all pairs on the 3 toughest stands in Skeet. In which timing does become a big deal.

So, auto or fixed breech? For me the ideal Skeet gun is an O/U and a Side by Side a close second. Next up is a semi and it's a bit distance. May come a day when I get frail enough to have to shoot a semi but I'm holding that day off as long as possible. Note, my practice gun is a 28/410 Combo and I warm up with 410 every time I shoot.

If you want to get into breaking Clays as a sport I would recommend that you start with an O/U. If you want a gun for Hunting then choose a Semi. Because Semi's tend to run a bit lighter for carry and firing a 3.5 inch Goose load is not at all fun in a fixed breech.


I've stopped counting.
 
Posts: 4969 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No rail wear will be painless.
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I had installed the Limbsaver recoil pads on all the long guns I own that would accept one. (rifles and shotguns)

They definitely work! But they do have one drawback. As they age (years) they get "tacky" and will stick to whatever they touch.
I have a vinyl coated tablecloth cut to size inside my safe on the floor. It protects the cloth interior from gun oil seeping out of various firearms. Several are stored inverted.
The first time I noticed a sticky Limbsaver recoil pad, I thought it was going to pull the entire pile of guns out onto the floor before the recoil pad pulled loose from the tablecloth.
They also started leaving a sticky black residue on anything they touched.

Out in the field, lean your rifle/shotgun up against a tree, and when you pick it back up it has a pile of leaves and forest floor debris stuck to the bottom of the recoil pad.

It's a good thing I am a pack rat. I saved every OEM recoil pad I removed when installing the Limbsaver recoil pads.
I switched them all back to the original factory recoil pads and threw the Limbsavers in the trash.



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Posts: 1230 | Registered: December 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Made it out to the range this morning. I think the Kynshot does cut recoil a bit, but it certainly isn't 80% as the advertised upper limit.

Shot several different 00 buckshot loads and a couple brands of slugs. Federal LE127 for the win, but Hornady critical defense was a very close second out to 15 yards.

Winchester 3" 1oz slugs were point of aim at 15 and 25 yards...and still mostly suck on the shoulder. Didn't quite feel momentarily unconscious like before though, so that's progress. Razz
 
Posts: 6959 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by apprentice:
I think the Kynshot does cut recoil a bit, but it certainly isn't 80% as the advertised upper limit.

No, the Kynshot can't do that. The ad might as well be for women's shoes at the mall -- "save up to 80%". The only device that comes close to reducing recoil by that much is a highly efficient muzzle brake on a centerfire rifle, with a cartridge that produces substantial muzzle pressure. Of course the downside to such a brake is likely a 20 dB increase in muzzle blast to the shooter and anyone nearby.
 
Posts: 7300 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Somewhere I have a Moss500 stock that I hollowed out and installed a Browning(?) reciprocation but pad in. I was doing tons of slug shooting at the time, experimenting with tweaks and techniques to try to squeeze out small groups.

It was a large affair, it reciprocated and had some round geared adjustable clutch type arraignment. Meant for trap guns no doubt, not slug guns with high magnification scopes. It worked, sort of, but made for one jumpy gun. You really needed to know your eye relief, extended and compressed. No creeping up on it. lol It would load up in recoil, then push back out and move forward giving an odd, long recoil impulse. No free lunch.


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Posts: 19600 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We are talking about perceived recoil, and that varies a lot. In general, gas guns will mitigate the perception of recoil the most.

But stock design matters a lot. An ill fitting stock can be bad. A good recoil pad can help a lot. In-stock recoil devices can help. The material the stock is made of matters. Recoil damping inserts in a stock help.

I think it is almost impossible to generalize other than to say, all else being equal, gas guns will be the softest-feeling. All else is rarely equal.

I can say that my Winchester 1300 (pump) with a 3" magnum slug is a bitch. Worst recoil impulse I have ever felt. It hits hard in the shoulder (which I mind less), and if I don't pay attention to controlling muzzle rise, it will bang my right thumb into my nose. I bought a box of five once by mistake, and I wasn't going to "waste" them. I'd probably waste them if I got another box.




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Posts: 51414 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:

I can say that my Winchester 1300 (pump) with a 3" magnum slug is a bitch. Worst recoil impulse I have ever felt. It hits hard in the shoulder (which I mind less), and if I don't pay attention to controlling muzzle rise, it will bang my right thumb into my nose. I bought a box of five once by mistake, and I wasn't going to "waste" them. I'd probably waste them if I got another box.




The company was responsive to an email I sent over the weekend, asking me to call and talk my concerns over. After calling today I came away with the impression that they weren't really prepared to answer any detail oriented questions. Instead, I was told that the different settings were to accommodate different shooter's preferences. OK fine, but why would anyone want to feel more recoil than they have to? Crickets.

So, I took the piston/buttstock portion off of my gun and commenced testing the different settings by pushing downward on a bathroom scale. UL labs I'm not, but it seemed that the piston began moving around twenty pounds of pressure and came to the end of travel just before eighty pounds. Subjectively it seemed that the lower settings (medium and "open") lowered the amount of weight it took to get to the mid-point of travel.

I've set it to "open" and will re-test by firing at some point in the future. Stay tuned.
 
Posts: 6959 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I find it odd that they make that dampening stock setup, then pair it with actual stocks that aren't very good for dealing with recoil. lol Though I guess I understand why, they're standardized and easily obtainable, the look sells better. But recoil wise it's a step in the wrong direction.

I've probably told the story here before of a buddy who had a pump gun with a telescoping AR stock on it. He shot it in a knock down steel match, maybe 125 +/- rounds. By the end of the match he looked like he'd been in a fist fight. Literally, his face was all swollen up from that stock like he'd been punched in the face repeatedly. He sold it right away.
 
Posts: 19600 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by cas:
I find it odd that they make that dampening stock setup, then pair it with actual stocks that aren't very good for dealing with recoil. lol Though I guess I understand why, they're standardized and easily obtainable, the look sells better. But recoil wise it's a step in the wrong direction.

I've probably told the story here before of a buddy who had a pump gun with a telescoping AR stock on it. He shot it in a knock down steel match, maybe 125 +/- rounds. By the end of the match he looked like he'd been in a fist fight. Literally, his face was all swollen up from that stock like he'd been punched in the face repeatedly. He sold it right away.


Agreed, and that is why I added a Limbsaver pad designed to fit the stock that I ordered as part of the full assembly. It was in the "suggested accessories" list on the website I ordered from.
Way better than the I-beam style that comes standard.
 
Posts: 6959 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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