quote:

Originally posted by goose5:
Any here like the 20 gauge for this purpose?

Yes I do, as does my wife.
I picked up a Mossberg 590 20g 8 (8+1 really) Shot Tactical back in November of 2021. The one with the ghost ring sights and 8 shot tube. I added a 4-shell side saddle to it.

My wife and I have had it out to the range a half dozen times now, and both of us REALLY like it.

We have patterned it on three different occasions at 4, 8, & 12 yards. The average size groups are 3", 5 3/4" and 10 2/3" respectively. Used two different loads, Federal #3 Buckshot and Winchester Defender #3 Buckshot, both are 2 3/4" length. Also shot some slugs at 25 yards, good results too. Both of us like the ghost ring sights.

The longest distance in our home is 26 ft. However, the most likely used distance would be either 18 ft or 11 ft.

The main reason for going with the Mossberg is because of the safety location, my wife shoots shotguns left-handed and I shot them right-handed.

https://www.mossberg.com/590-9-shot-50699.html

A 20ga shell absolutely will take care of most any situation, be it a four-legged or two-legged varmint. We've been conditioned to think that nothing less than 12ga will get the job done, and that just ain't so. Now if operational experience with pumps is a concern, there are excellent semi-autos available like the Mossberg SA-20. I have a friend who used one as her protection firearm in her storefront art gallery (well before she finally called it and moved to Idaho). I had shot it on several occasions and it's one sweetheart of a shotgun. Relatively light on recoil but with plenty of power to make a mess out of anything I would point the muzzle at. Definitely no lack of force there. Of course training is still critical; whether short-shucking or forgetting to deactivate the safety, neither will do a body good in a dire situation.

EDIT: as for pumps I really like the 20ga Mossberg Shockwave. Even better than my own 12ga version. Very controllable and extremely tidy-handling because of its relative diminutive size.

As for ARs, I think they have their place but in the hands of an inexperienced user I'd feel better if there aren't a lot of neighboring houses close by. Collateral damage does become a thing with every miss, even if in the moment that is the least of one's worries.

quote:

Springs don't wear from staying compressed for long periods of time.

This, as a basic statement, is not true. Also file it under wives tales.


They will, depending on the type, take a set and stay shorter. I see this all the time in my work. You might choose to argue they are not "weaker", just much shorter, but if that keeps them from doing their job, then it's the same thing.
(and I'm talking over only a couple years, and zero exercise cycles) One could argue "those aren't magazine springs", no they're not and apples aren't oranges, hence the "as a basic statement", but saying springs don't wear out from staying compressed is far too broad and inaccurate.

quote:

If it must be a shotgun, go with a 12 gauge double barrel (20" bbls) coach gun with hammers …

Without a reciprocating action, for the same barrel length, a double-barrel is ~4 inches shorter than a pump or auto. But this is offset by having only two shots. This is a deal breaker for me.

Plastic shotgun shells seem pretty rigid, but are there any concerns with them deforming in a magazine when stored long term?

The Mossberg Shock Wave comes in 20 and .410.
My 20 gauge has the laser saddle.

I also have the Mossberg 20 gauge Persuader, 8 + 1 with ghost ring sights and short LOP fixed stock.

The thread on the new Smith folding PCC has my interest. I think I'm going to check that out.

The size and stature of the shooter is the biggest factor when talking shotguns. A petite woman is simply not going to handle a 12 gauge shotgun as well as a standard size male.

There is also no need to try and master the complexities of a pump shotgun, especially when the intended use is for HD. I think it is easy to short-stroke or even forget to cycle a pump shotgun while under stress. Semi-auto shotguns are at least as reliable as an AR-15 when shooting quality shells. When you factor in the extra recoil of a pump vs a semi-auto, a pump shotgun would be my last choice for HD.

Browning, Winchester and Benelli all make very reliable 20 gauge shotguns. The Winchester Sx4 and Browning Silver have a compact model with a 24” barrel. I’ve regularly shot a 26” Benelli M1 in 20 gauge and it is very fast and light shooting compared to my 22” Remington Versa Max Tactical (which is soft shooting for its gauge). The Versa Max feels bigger all around even though the barrel is shorter by 4”.

Winchester and Browning have one non-rifled 24” 20 gauge model and Benelli has several different models with 24” barrels in 20 gauge.

https://www.benelliusa.com/sho...eld-shotguns?eid=285

https://www.winchesterguns.com...ent/sx4-compact.html

https://www.browning.com/produ...eld-micro-midas.html

The Browning and Winchester will be softer shooting as they use a gas piston system. The Benelli use an inertia system. However, IMO, the difference is not a lot and wouldn’t be the sole determinative factor.

If you are concerned about OAL of the shotgun, you should be able to send the barrel out and have it cut down at least a couple of inches perhaps even down to 18.5.

https://www.brileygunsmithing....mithing-pricing.aspx

Briley can also open up the loading port so you can load shells faster (a common modification for 3 gun competition shooting).

You can even get a shotgun extension tube from Nordic Components and other manufacturers. Although, you should double check 922r regulations first.

https://nordiccomp.com/categor...assemblies-for-20ga/

If it were me, I would buy a PCC carbine (and possibly SBR it). My girls have no problem shooting a semi-auto 20 gauge and AR-15 but prefer my CZ Scorpion that has been SBRd. The CZ is just easier for them to handle (but they are very petite and small).

Edited to add that the Browning and Winchester non-rifled barrel models have stocks designed for smaller people. It reduces the LOP making the gun easier to handle.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BB61,

An affordable 5 shot 20G DA/SA revolver with a swing-out cylinder (but not available in USA. Yet.):

I have a 30 year old 870P that I would trust my life without a second thought.

I have built an 870 in 20 gauge that is a clone of the the 870P It's truly a Mine Me.

When I take Mini Me to shotgun classes, most of the instructors do a double take since it looks like a 12 gauge 870P and they love shooting it more than they should. It's an 8 shot with Vang extension, Mesa Side Saddle and the 12" Hogue stock. It's just a hoot to shoot.

The 20 is fine for SD purposes. Remember that the 20 gauge has more oomph going for it than a 44 Mag so it's not a slouch and should never be looked down upon.

I agree with a AR over a shotgun and a PCC in 9mm being almost as good, although reportedly suffers from over penetration.

I do think a 5.7x28 carbine is of worthy consideration, esp in dense populated areas. It does not over penetrate, stays in the body typically with Speer 40gr GD or even Fed ball and creates nasty wound cavities from its instability. A Ruger LC Carbine is incredibly light, soft recoil, accurate and quick, not to mention much shorter than a AR and most PCC’s with 16” barrels and recoils far less than either.

Honestly, the best solution is an AR15 with a red dot. In a perfect world something with a barrel length of between 10.5-13.5". Maybe even in 300 BO since the ballistics are better. Minimal recoil, relatively light and maneuverable. Easy to operate. 30 round magazine. Some good self defense loads available.

Of course, since the ATF reversed course and decided pistol braces are a no go, not worth the hassle to do an SBR, so I'd go 14.5" with a pinned flash hider to get you to 16".

If you want a semi-auto shotgun Beretta 1301 is tough to beat, but I think it's only available in 12 gauge.

quote:

Originally posted by cas:

quote:

Springs don't wear from staying compressed for long periods of time.

This, as a basic statement, is not true. Also file it under wives tales.


They will, depending on the type, take a set and stay shorter. I see this all the time in my work. You might choose to argue they are not "weaker", just much shorter, but if that keeps them from doing their job, then it's the same thing.
(and I'm talking over only a couple years, and zero exercise cycles) One could argue "those aren't magazine springs", no they're not and apples aren't oranges, hence the "as a basic statement", but saying springs don't wear out from staying compressed is far too broad and inaccurate.

I too am SO over that freaking dad tale, told over and over again, a thousand times, on the internet, on gun forums, over, and over, and over, again. I too agree with you. Its nonsense. Compressing springs can and does weaken them, over time. You can argue the contrary till you are blue in the face, but I'll not agree with you. I have real world experience that says otherwise. I have seen numerous instances of "new" magazine springs with minimal use that have basically only been loaded once or twice that are about shot. Maybe it was a bad batch of spring steel, maybe it was a faulty heat-treating process, maybe the design of the magazine over-compresses the spring too much. Maybe the spring design is faulty. Last I checked, springs were man made items and can thus fail, for numerous reasons.

Load just the magazines you need and leave the rest of them empty. Or don't. They are your springs. I know from my experience that loaded magazines over time have shorter magazine springs, and thus, diminished capacity from new.