SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Competition, Training and Regional Shoots    Have you ever dragged a simulated casualty?
Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Have you ever dragged a simulated casualty? Login/Join 
Member
posted
I have done it a few times, under various training circumstances; thankfully I've never had to drag a real casualty. It had been years since I did training like that, until today. A planned training day with friends fell through at the last minute, so I decided to put myself through the "stress shoot" I had planned for us.

Tote two large ammo cans full of dirt ~30m, drag a duffel bag containing four wet sandbags back the way you came, fire five rounds at a target ~20m away from the standing position, fire five rounds from the kneeling position, move as fast as you can to a shooting position ~60m from the target, fire five from the standing-supported, fire five from the kneeling-supported, move to a position ~100m from the target and fire five from the standing position, and then shed your ruck and shoot the final five from the prone-supported. Said ruck weighs 50LBs, and you've also been wearing a chest rig with four mags and whatever else you've got on there.

Dragging the duffel was absolutely miserable. I got about 25% of the way, and had to take a break. At halfway I resorted to a crawling posture, and took about two more breaks before making it to the end. I am not the most fit person in the world, but I am no turd either. 6'1" and 165LBs, if that helps give you an idea of my build. I will smoke most people on an obstacle course, but I lack the power required for tasks like this. It was awful, and an eye-opener; I am glad to have done it, and will try to incorporate it more often moving forward.
 
Posts: 1984 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
as a FF this is a regular training item. I'm old so its always a real struggle. I can't imagine doing it will maintaining any sense of situational awareness or responding with active defense. Now I get that by myself I shed 50+lb's of FF PPE gear but I'm going to add back my defensive gear and armour so the net isn't very much. good on you for trying.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10915 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
posted Hide Post
We've done it numerous times in training, with the dummy, and with live "victims". I've had to carry people plenty in real life, too, but thankfully never that far, and not during a fight. It's no fun, and will definitely limit your combat effectiveness. It's far easier with a buddy!
 
Posts: 8192 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
IME, the dummy or, in my case, the duffel, is usually worse than a victim role-player. The role-player usually can't help but assist in a way. The dummy or duffel is pure dead weight, and more representative of an unconscious casualty. Having a weapon you need to manage while moving something like that is a huge hindrance as well. Especially when it can't be slung conventionally across your back, due to a pack.
 
Posts: 1984 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Weighed one of the sandbags out of the duffel. 50LBs on-the-dot; so, a ~200LB casualty. Not bad, except for one of the dudes I regularly train with weighs more than that with nothing on but his friggen underwear.

Also, I paced off the distance I dragged the duffel. Closer to 20m than 30m.
 
Posts: 1984 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by KSGM:
IME, the dummy or, in my case, the duffel, is usually worse than a victim role-player. The role-player usually can't help but assist in a way. The dummy or duffel is pure dead weight, and more representative of an unconscious casualty.


Yep. We have a 175 pound training dummy that sees occasional use.

175 pounds of floppy dead weight is a lot different than a 175 pound roleplayer, or 175 pounds of rigid weight in the gym.
 
Posts: 32323 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Member"
Picture of cas
posted Hide Post
I did it in a multi gun match once, it was an army duffle loaded down with lord knows what. Not as heavy as a full grown male, but still a decent weight.

The strap on the duffle was not long at all. I am fairly tall. So once I got going, I straighten up some. Once I got the speed up, the duffle can off the ground and passed me, flinging me around in a circle and slamming back to the ground. When I regained my composer and got going again, the same thing happened again. I was laughing like crazy, out of breath and getting dizzy. Thank goodness I hadn't drawn my pistol prior to dragging it or I'd have gone home for "breaking the 360+" Big Grin


_____________________________________________________
Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.

 
Posts: 20984 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Washing machine whisperer
Picture of Appliance Brad
posted Hide Post
Did at Pat Goodales in WV. Railroad tie with a loop of heavy rope. The stage had you put hits on a steel target, them holster and retrieve the casualty and then put more rounds on the target when you got back to cover. I was younger then.


__________________________
Writing the next chapter that I've been looking forward to.
 
Posts: 11213 | Location: below the palm tree line of Michigan | Registered: September 17, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Page late and a dollar short
posted Hide Post
As a FF we used turnout coats and bunker pants filled with old fabric and rubber fire hose.

That was around 35-40 years ago, doubt I could do it today though.


-------------------------------------——————
————————--Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman)
 
Posts: 8044 | Location: Livingston County Michigan USA | Registered: August 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Washing machine whisperer
Picture of Appliance Brad
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by shovelhead:
As a FF we used turnout coats and bunker pants filled with old fabric and rubber fire hose.

That was around 35-40 years ago, doubt I could do it today though.


We have a "hose dummy" made from old fire hose and dressed in bunkers at our department. He's a heavy MoFo.


__________________________
Writing the next chapter that I've been looking forward to.
 
Posts: 11213 | Location: below the palm tree line of Michigan | Registered: September 17, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Page late and a dollar short
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Appliance Brad:
quote:
Originally posted by shovelhead:
As a FF we used turnout coats and bunker pants filled with old fabric and rubber fire hose.

That was around 35-40 years ago, doubt I could do it today though.


We have a "hose dummy" made from old fire hose and dressed in bunkers at our department. He's a heavy MoFo.


Last FD I was with trained in basement rescues. Our facility (Novi) in the late 80’s was the old municipal building on Novi Road. Built in the early 50’s to house the physical plant the stairs were pretty steep. We got to drag ours up and out more that a few times.


-------------------------------------——————
————————--Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman)
 
Posts: 8044 | Location: Livingston County Michigan USA | Registered: August 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Stupid
Allergy
Picture of dry-fly
posted Hide Post
I remember going through “try outs” for Medstar in Fort Worth years ago. Had to go up a 5 story stairwell and start cpr on a dummy. You and your partner had to carry down a monitor, trauma bag and the dummy, stopping on each landing to continue cpr. That was not pleasant. No way in hell I could do that now.


"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen...
 
Posts: 6971 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: July 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Yes

In the old days, 1 or 2 times a year, they would be part of an IDPA match, most of the time the weight was not extreme as you had to accommodate all levels of shooters.

I made one for our club using coveralls, 2X4's in the legs, and arms, some small sands bag in the middle with spray foam filling in the gaps, we put a harness on him to give us something to grab a hold of, usually just to drag him far enough to set off some target activation, 5-20 feet

It was enough that it made you think about how difficult it could be to deal with a body in a real situation.


RC
 
Posts: 1937 | Location: Indiana | Registered: March 17, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Doin' what I can
with what I got
Picture of Rob Decker
posted Hide Post
Yes, and I should do it more, because it SUCKS


----------------------------------------
Death smiles at us all. Be sure you smile back.
 
Posts: 5536 | Location: Greater Nashville, TN | Registered: May 11, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
we simulated finding and pulling a hurt person out of a new industrial building in Town. I am mostly ok today after a 48 hour rest period. I am too old for this.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10915 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
quote:
Originally posted by KSGM:
IME, the dummy or, in my case, the duffel, is usually worse than a victim role-player. The role-player usually can't help but assist in a way. The dummy or duffel is pure dead weight, and more representative of an unconscious casualty.


Yep. We have a 175 pound training dummy that sees occasional use.

175 pounds of floppy dead weight is a lot different than a 175 pound roleplayer, or 175 pounds of rigid weight in the gym.


I don't think I'll ever not be surprised by how heavy a human sandbag is. No structure and no help.
 
Posts: 5126 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I did it back in the day on some training thing at Bragg. My takeaway from that was that women shouldn’t be in units where this is expected because there is no way they can carry a 200 lb man in a fireman’s carry. It’s not a sexist thing. It’s just a fact. If you’re depending on your buddies to carry you out and some can’t do it because they lack the strength, then you’ve just degraded the unit’s capabilities.

+
 
Posts: 2838 | Location: Unass the AO | Registered: December 16, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
I carried a guy in training last week. I’ll take a dummy or sand filled duffle any day.

He went “down” on an entry. Put a TQ on the simulated leg wound. Asked him if he would try to walk, he said yes, I got him up and we started down a narrow hall. Instructor yelled “he’s incapacitated”. Damn. I picked him up and carried him to a van. Wasn’t far, only about 30 yards, but damn.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 37011 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
I picked him up

What technique(s) do you use, for getting the guy up onto your shoulders; or do you employ more of an armpit bearhug sort of drag?
 
Posts: 1984 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
posted Hide Post
Armpit lift. He was wearing a LBT 6094 all decked out and actually trying to get him into a fireman type carry…….wasn’t in the cards. Smile




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 37011 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  Competition, Training and Regional Shoots    Have you ever dragged a simulated casualty?

© SIGforum 2024