I have done it a few times, under various training circumstances; thankfully I've never had to drag a real casualty. It had been years since I did training like that, until today. A planned training day with friends fell through at the last minute, so I decided to put myself through the "stress shoot" I had planned for us.

Tote two large ammo cans full of dirt ~30m, drag a duffel bag containing four wet sandbags back the way you came, fire five rounds at a target ~20m away from the standing position, fire five rounds from the kneeling position, move as fast as you can to a shooting position ~60m from the target, fire five from the standing-supported, fire five from the kneeling-supported, move to a position ~100m from the target and fire five from the standing position, and then shed your ruck and shoot the final five from the prone-supported. Said ruck weighs 50LBs, and you've also been wearing a chest rig with four mags and whatever else you've got on there.

Dragging the duffel was absolutely miserable. I got about 25% of the way, and had to take a break. At halfway I resorted to a crawling posture, and took about two more breaks before making it to the end. I am not the most fit person in the world, but I am no turd either. 6'1" and 165LBs, if that helps give you an idea of my build. I will smoke most people on an obstacle course, but I lack the power required for tasks like this. It was awful, and an eye-opener; I am glad to have done it, and will try to incorporate it more often moving forward.

as a FF this is a regular training item. I'm old so its always a real struggle. I can't imagine doing it will maintaining any sense of situational awareness or responding with active defense. Now I get that by myself I shed 50+lb's of FF PPE gear but I'm going to add back my defensive gear and armour so the net isn't very much. good on you for trying.

We've done it numerous times in training, with the dummy, and with live "victims". I've had to carry people plenty in real life, too, but thankfully never that far, and not during a fight. It's no fun, and will definitely limit your combat effectiveness. It's far easier with a buddy!

IME, the dummy or, in my case, the duffel, is usually worse than a victim role-player. The role-player usually can't help but assist in a way. The dummy or duffel is pure dead weight, and more representative of an unconscious casualty. Having a weapon you need to manage while moving something like that is a huge hindrance as well. Especially when it can't be slung conventionally across your back, due to a pack.

Weighed one of the sandbags out of the duffel. 50LBs on-the-dot; so, a ~200LB casualty. Not bad, except for one of the dudes I regularly train with weighs more than that with nothing on but his friggen underwear.

Also, I paced off the distance I dragged the duffel. Closer to 20m than 30m.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
IME, the dummy or, in my case, the duffel, is usually worse than a victim role-player. The role-player usually can't help but assist in a way. The dummy or duffel is pure dead weight, and more representative of an unconscious casualty.

Yep. We have a 175 pound training dummy that sees occasional use.

175 pounds of floppy dead weight is a lot different than a 175 pound roleplayer, or 175 pounds of rigid weight in the gym.

I did it in a multi gun match once, it was an army duffle loaded down with lord knows what. Not as heavy as a full grown male, but still a decent weight.

The strap on the duffle was not long at all. I am fairly tall. So once I got going, I straighten up some. Once I got the speed up, the duffle can off the ground and passed me, flinging me around in a circle and slamming back to the ground. When I regained my composer and got going again, the same thing happened again. I was laughing like crazy, out of breath and getting dizzy. Thank goodness I hadn't drawn my pistol prior to dragging it or I'd have gone home for "breaking the 360+"

Did at Pat Goodales in WV. Railroad tie with a loop of heavy rope. The stage had you put hits on a steel target, them holster and retrieve the casualty and then put more rounds on the target when you got back to cover. I was younger then.

As a FF we used turnout coats and bunker pants filled with old fabric and rubber fire hose.

That was around 35-40 years ago, doubt I could do it today though.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
As a FF we used turnout coats and bunker pants filled with old fabric and rubber fire hose.

That was around 35-40 years ago, doubt I could do it today though.

We have a "hose dummy" made from old fire hose and dressed in bunkers at our department. He's a heavy MoFo.

quote:

Originally posted by Appliance Brad:

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
As a FF we used turnout coats and bunker pants filled with old fabric and rubber fire hose.

That was around 35-40 years ago, doubt I could do it today though.

We have a "hose dummy" made from old fire hose and dressed in bunkers at our department. He's a heavy MoFo.

Last FD I was with trained in basement rescues. Our facility (Novi) in the late 80’s was the old municipal building on Novi Road. Built in the early 50’s to house the physical plant the stairs were pretty steep. We got to drag ours up and out more that a few times.

I remember going through “try outs” for Medstar in Fort Worth years ago. Had to go up a 5 story stairwell and start cpr on a dummy. You and your partner had to carry down a monitor, trauma bag and the dummy, stopping on each landing to continue cpr. That was not pleasant. No way in hell I could do that now.

Yes

In the old days, 1 or 2 times a year, they would be part of an IDPA match, most of the time the weight was not extreme as you had to accommodate all levels of shooters.

I made one for our club using coveralls, 2X4's in the legs, and arms, some small sands bag in the middle with spray foam filling in the gaps, we put a harness on him to give us something to grab a hold of, usually just to drag him far enough to set off some target activation, 5-20 feet

It was enough that it made you think about how difficult it could be to deal with a body in a real situation.

Yes, and I should do it more, because it SUCKS

we simulated finding and pulling a hurt person out of a new industrial building in Town. I am mostly ok today after a 48 hour rest period. I am too old for this.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
IME, the dummy or, in my case, the duffel, is usually worse than a victim role-player. The role-player usually can't help but assist in a way. The dummy or duffel is pure dead weight, and more representative of an unconscious casualty.

Yep. We have a 175 pound training dummy that sees occasional use.

175 pounds of floppy dead weight is a lot different than a 175 pound roleplayer, or 175 pounds of rigid weight in the gym.

I don't think I'll ever not be surprised by how heavy a human sandbag is. No structure and no help.

I did it back in the day on some training thing at Bragg. My takeaway from that was that women shouldn’t be in units where this is expected because there is no way they can carry a 200 lb man in a fireman’s carry. It’s not a sexist thing. It’s just a fact. If you’re depending on your buddies to carry you out and some can’t do it because they lack the strength, then you’ve just degraded the unit’s capabilities.

+

I carried a guy in training last week. I’ll take a dummy or sand filled duffle any day.

He went “down” on an entry. Put a TQ on the simulated leg wound. Asked him if he would try to walk, he said yes, I got him up and we started down a narrow hall. Instructor yelled “he’s incapacitated”. Damn. I picked him up and carried him to a van. Wasn’t far, only about 30 yards, but damn.

quote:

I picked him up

What technique(s) do you use, for getting the guy up onto your shoulders; or do you employ more of an armpit bearhug sort of drag?

Armpit lift. He was wearing a LBT 6094 all decked out and actually trying to get him into a fireman type carry…….wasn’t in the cards.