We haven’t started rolling them out to all officers yet, but we had a hundred or so some in over the last few months for various phases of testing. We pulled new and senior officers, good shooters and challenged shooters, and had them shoot the course of fire with and without the optic as well as several drills. Across the board scores went up. For those already shooting max score, groups improved. The vast majority saw faster split times in the drills. The optic was very popular in testing.

Our plan is to zero it at issue and check zero and replace battery at annual quals. The battery should last much longer than one year, but it’s cheap insurance.

Backup irons are black on black suppressor sights. If an officer doesn’t want the optic it will be removed and tritium night sights installed.

Unless things change we will start rolling out the new guns in the spring. I’ve already volunteered to take part in any early field testing. The minute they approve the 19 as an alternate weapon I’m headed up there with one of mine to shoot the course.

Jljones 55 including 10 full time CSOs and 13 Sros. SROs are all retired and reemployed. They got the new set up first and liked it. That’s what surprised me. CSOs will get them last.

quote:

Originally posted by Paddy314:
Jljones 55 including 10 full time CSOs and 13 Sros. SROs are all retired and reemployed. They got the new set up first and liked it. That’s what surprised me. CSOs will get them last.

Yeah I was figuring out where you work by the number. As you well know, 55 road deputies and detectives is a huge SO in KY. We are 70+\- with 5 full time CSOs. We don’t have SROs as they are their own police force.

We gave the men/women the option of an RDS when we recently switched to new G45s. Of the 110 (+/-) officers, I would guess that maybe 40 chose an RDS sight. At the end of the day, cops are cheap.

The officers must pick a reputable sight system (Trijicon, Holosun, Steiner, etc.), buy their own mounting plate and suppressor height sights (if necessary), and attend a 16-hour transition course.

I saw my cousin this weekend. He works for Louisville Metro PD. They are transitioning to G47s with HoloSun sights. He just went through the training. He said scores were way up and the troops liked the set up.

PA State Police transitioned (or are transitioning) to the Walther PDP with Aimpoint ACRO sight.
Talking to the local instructors, the scores have gone up dramatically, of course they are switching from the Sig P227, so that may have something to do with it too (smaller caliber, no double / single action).
My small (15 man) agency switched to a P365X with Holosun sight and since we are all old, there was some push back. Those that took the time to learn the optic have said they like it better, and the scores did go up for those people as well. The Chief did let those who did not want to switch to the new platform qualify with their old weapon.

quote:

Originally posted by josp:
PA State Police transitioned (or are transitioning) to the Walther PDP with Aimpoint ACRO sight.
Talking to the local instructors, the scores have gone up dramatically, of course they are switching from the Sig P227, so that may have something to do with it too (smaller caliber, no double / single action).
My small (15 man) agency switched to a P365X with Holosun sight and since we are all old, there was some push back. Those that took the time to learn the optic have said they like it better, and the scores did go up for those people as well. The Chief did let those who did not want to switch to the new platform qualify with their old weapon.

I picked up my PDP Professional with ACRO this morning. I am looking forward to shooting it sometime next week. So far it looks like a winner!

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My small (15 man) agency switched to a P365X

A P365X as a “duty” gun????????

Perhaps he means the slim yet full-sized P365 XMacro, not the subcompact P365X.

Or perhaps he just works for some nontraditional LE agency. Even outside the feds, there are some small specialized law enforcement agencies out there that do no uniformed patrol duties, instead doing stuff in plainclothes/soft uniforms like state-level alcohol and tobacco enforcement, or fire marshal inspections and investigations, or courtroom security in suits and ties.

Yeah I was thinking like fire Marshall or similar. Sort of a modern Colt Dectective.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

My small (15 man) agency switched to a P365X

A P365X as a “duty” gun????????

We issue regular P365s as backups, no optics though.

The OP might want to contact Ft. Worth P.D. Around the Spring of 2021 they started running their first academy classes where the trainees would be issued a Glock 17 cut for an RMR. The company I worked for was doing the milling for Ft. Worths slides, for ALL of the officers transitioning. I haven't worked for the company for almost three years, so I don't know the current status. Like I said, it might be worth contacting Ft. Worth P.D. for some input. Regrettably I don't have a point of contact.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

My small (15 man) agency switched to a P365X

A P365X as a “duty” gun????????

Yes, but we are that non traditional force. Detectives for the DA’s office. All plainclothes or forensic detectives.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

Have I ever told you that "I hate it when you're right."?

I go back into uniform the first of the month to be part of the change that needs to happen……….

After spending five-ish years banging my head against the table with two different chiefs on crazy ideas like 9mm pistols, personal purchase, and optics, we got the right chief for it in 2021. We had a very straightforward meeting and it was a go.

The initial roll out was to officers willing to buy their own gun, optic, and holster. That first wave was mostly the instructor cadre (all but one) and the enthusiasts. As people saw the capabilities, we started to pick up some of the people that weren't great shooters who saw it as a way to make their life easier.

By 2022, all of the remaining Glock 22s were traded off for 17 MOSs, significantly reducing the barrier to entry. Those that want to participate still have to buy a holster and optic, but we now have about 60 officers (75% of sworn staff) voluntarily on optics and at their own expense, no less. Nobody has ever gone back to irons. We mandate a two day transition with exceptions for a handful of other classes and guys that complete the academy firearms program with an optic.

I hate using qualification scores as a barometer of performance, but optics users average higher scores than irons users. We incorporate hit factor scored stages as culminating exercises at most range days and find that optics users massively outperform irons users on these exercises.

We have an authorized list of firearms (all 9mm Glock models) and optics (Holosun is by far the most popular). Batteries are replaced annually. Zeroes are confirmed periodically. Screws get witness marks and are checked. One thing we have found is that sometimes a shooter with a massive flinch issue will the up zeroing the gun for that flinch. That ends up being a pretty good diagnostic for us. Instructors check dot/irons relationship to identify it. We're not trying to co-witness the dot and irons but they should be "close". Every once in a while you find that buried dot.

The biggest challenge we run into is getting range access when something happens and somebody needs to get out and get their zero checked or something. This is a symptom of our not having our own range. The small number of times this has happened (one RMR died, one 509T's rear glass fell out, a couple rear sights drifted), we've just found a way to get it done.

Overall we have been very happy with our optics program.

We started w/ red dots about 2 years ago. Officers choice if they want one or not. Department issued G17 Gen5 MOS. The department will buy one red dot for your duty gun from the approved list. Trijicon SRO is the most used followed by the Trijicon RMR HD. Uniform allowance is used for the officer’s the mandatory suppresor height night sights, holster, and mounting plate. Most w/ the C&H precision plate. Some of the tightwads used the plate provide by Glock.

Small group for the first officers wanting red dots. Now more officers want to go to the transition course after seeing what a red dot can do for them if they follow their training and shooting fundamentals.

New cops for the last three years have been mandated to carry a department issue P320 with a couple different optics, very few G17s with optics and even fewer M&P one of the three. 500 person dept used to be larger. Still have about 66 authorized handguns I’m sure that number is a lot lower now. We still have one revolver shooter.

Less than 100 don’t have a dot.

I'm working with one agency that will issue RDS equipped guns for the Officers who want one and another I closely work with does the same. In both cases the majority of cops went with the RDS. Earlier this month we held a region wide Instructor Symposium for firearms trainers. All but one used RDS equipped guns. The single biggest issue I've seen is poor mounting. Mount them correctly and they are fairly trouble free. Are they as reliable as metallic sights, no. But they are excellent in low light and at extended ranges.

January of 2022, HSI was the first Federal LE agency to start the issuance of red dot equipped pistols to all agents at the basic training academy. Scores went up across the board, failures in firearms training went to zero.

For agents already in the field, I'd say about half have switched over and received it very well, and after a short time, their comfort level has increased to the point they have red dots on personal back up and off duty guns as well.