Walther P99 rabbit hole question

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posted

Yea, I saw an older .40 P99 and that trigger is whacked. Holy shit.

Joe

Posts: 2525 | Location: Az | Registered: October 28, 2006

Ignored post by Blackwater posted

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What does that mean?

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Ignored post by parabellum posted

cslinger

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Also curious. Did you not like the trigger? I’ve always felt the P99 had one of the nicest overall triggers around at least for a polymer gun.

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Ignored post by cslinger posted

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The single action trigger pull of the P99 is the best stock pull of any striker-fired pistol. It's a true single action trigger pull. The only thing better is Walther's Dynamic Performance Trigger, which is a near 200 dollar aftermarket option, except for Walther's PDP Pro, which comes with the Dynamic Performance Trigger installed.

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Ignored post by parabellum posted

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I didn’t like the trigger at all. Pressing the trigger slightly and being in the SA (AS) mode and having to decock… too much manipulation to what end.

Hate the grip too.

Joe

Posts: 2525 | Location: Az | Registered: October 28, 2006

Ignored post by Blackwater posted

lechiffre

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posted

quote:
Originally posted by tigerbloodwinning:

Lechiffre, I still don't think that carrying in AS mode is safer than carrying a PPQ (or PDP). Those guns have a trigger blade, which the P99 does not.

As I Understand it the blade (or hinge) that's in most triggers is there to prevent the trigger from moving under inertia if the gun is dropped. The P99 trigger does have a hinge. It's high up and I think inside the bottom part of the trigger. Originally the P99 had a visible split in the trigger. Of course having the entire visible part of the trigger as a single piece you don't get the bonus of the snag resistant effect of that dingus like the Glock or PPQ has.

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Ignored post by lechiffre posted

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quote:
Originally posted by Blackwater:
I didn’t like the trigger at all. Pressing the trigger slightly and being in the SA (AS) mode and having to decock… too much manipulation to what end.

Based upon this comment, it appears you don't understand what we're talking about when we refer to "antistress" mode. Merely racking the slide as you would to chamber a round does not put the pistol into this mode. Of course you have to decock the pistol after you cock it. This is no different than other DA/SA pistols.

And the grip has changeable backstraps to allow a shooter to adjust the grip, but that's neither here nor there.

quote:
Originally posted by lechiffre:
As I Understand it the blade (or hinge) that's in most triggers is there to prevent the trigger from moving under inertia if the gun is dropped.

If that were true, then other pistols, such as the Beretta 92 or the SIG P22x-series pistols- and other DA/SA pistols would have this feature. This would include the P99 as well, which has the shortest, lightest release of any striker-fired pistol and as you know, the P99 has no such feature. Otherwise, these pistols would not be drop-safe if you dropped one of them while they were cocked. The Beretta 92 is a very good example. Do you think during the extensive US armed forces pistol trials of the 1980s, the 92 might have been drop-tested with the hammer cocked? You bet it was. Furthermore, pistols such as the Glock, which uses a partially cocked striker would be even less prone to the inertial discharge you describe, since there is a relatively long rearward movement of the trigger required in order to complete the rearward travel of the striker before firing is even possible.

No, I think the "prevent inertial fire" thing is either a myth which keeps being repeated, or it may have been a stated intention of the feature early on, but in actual use, it just doesn't work that way. The practical function of the safety blade is to prevent the trigger from being pressed unless a finger is on the face of the trigger, pressing rearward. The safety blade prevents objects which may enter the trigger guard from pushing the trigger rearward. Anyone skeptical of this should try getting a Glock to release the striker by putting objects of the trigger guard. It can be done, when you carefully and consciously put an object- such as the eraser end of a pencil exactly in the right spot, but it may take you several attempts; specific types of objects manipulated in specific ways. This is why carriers of these types of pistols are cautioned to always employ a holster which covers the trigger guard, and never use holsterless carry.

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Ignored post by parabellum posted

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posted

Well then I wasn't clear, I guess.
After racking the slide, decocking and then pressing the trigger partially it puts it in AS mode. I wouldn't carry it that way so the trigger is superfluous for me and AS is a misnomer. I'd rather a trigger that I can aggressively stack on a press out/engagement.

And the location of the decocker is not for me either, along with the soap bar grip.

Joe

Posts: 2525 | Location: Az | Registered: October 28, 2006

Ignored post by Blackwater posted

cslinger

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quote:
Hate the grip too.

Wow you are one of the only people I’ve ever heard this from. The P99….and subsequent are my “training” 9mm because everybody loves its feel.

Not calling you out or saying you are wrong or some silliness we are all different, just surprised as that isn’t something I expect to hear for any of the modern Walther pistols. (P99/PPQ/PDP etc.)

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Ignored post by cslinger posted

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quote:
Originally posted by Blackwater:
Well then I wasn't clear, I guess.
After racking the slide, decocking and then pressing the trigger partially it puts it in AS mode.

Sorry, no, this is not true.

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
The way the P99 works is this- If you rack the slide, the striker is cocked and the trigger draws rearward and goes into single-action mode. If you then press the decocker, the striker is decocked and the trigger goes forward all the way. As you pull/press the trigger, you will feel the resistance of the striker being drawn rearward until the trigger is almost fully rearward and the striker will release. This feels like the DA pull of any number of DA/SA pistols. If there is a round in the chamber, the pistol will fire. This is the only safe way to have the P99 ready to fire a round.

If the pistol is in DA mode and you retract the slide slightly - just enough to cock the striker- and then let it go into battery, the trigger will remain in the forward position. This is the so-called "antistress" mode.

If you then put any rearward pressure on the trigger, you will feel almost no resistance as the trigger goes back and the trigger will then lock into single-action mode. A press of the trigger releases the striker and if there's a round in the chamber, it will fire.

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Ignored post by parabellum posted

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posted

I stand corrected, I don't think I decocked the gun and pressed the trigger for the lighter shorter weight w/the trigger staying to the rear in a single action mode.

For some reason I thought that was the AS mode. Thanks for clarifying.

Joe

Posts: 2525 | Location: Az | Registered: October 28, 2006

Ignored post by Blackwater posted

lechiffre

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posted

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
If that were true, then other pistols, such as the Beretta 92 or the SIG P22x-series pistols- and other DA/SA pistols would have this feature. This would include the P99 as well, which has the shortest, lightest release of any striker-fired pistol and as you know, the P99 has no such feature. Otherwise, these pistols would not be drop-safe if you dropped one of them while they were cocked. The Beretta 92 is a very good example. Do you think during the extensive US armed forces pistol trials of the 1980s, the 92 might have been drop-tested with the hammer cocked? You bet it was. Furthermore, pistols such as the Glock, which uses a partially cocked striker would be even less prone to the inertial discharge you describe, since there is a relatively long rearward movement of the trigger required in order to complete the rearward travel of the striker before firing is even possible.

No, I think the "prevent inertial fire" thing is either a myth which keeps being repeated, or it may have been a stated intention of the feature early on, but in actual use, it just doesn't work that way. The practical function of the safety blade is to prevent the trigger from being pressed unless a finger is on the face of the trigger, pressing rearward. The safety blade prevents objects which may enter the trigger guard from pushing the trigger rearward. Anyone skeptical of this should try getting a Glock to release the striker by putting objects of the trigger guard. It can be done, when you carefully and consciously put an object- such as the eraser end of a pencil exactly in the right spot, but it may take you several attempts; specific types of objects manipulated in specific ways. This is why carriers of these types of pistols are cautioned to always employ a holster which covers the trigger guard, and never use holsterless carry.

I think you're right about the "prevent inertial fire" thing being a myth, a myth that I never questioned. The dingus first appeared on an Iver Johnson revolver like 100 years ago after all, and think those were all DAO.

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Ignored post by lechiffre posted

balance

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posted

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by Blackwater:
I didn’t like the trigger at all. Pressing the trigger slightly and being in the SA (AS) mode and having to decock… too much manipulation to what end.
Based upon this comment, it appears you don't understand what we're talking about when we refer to "antistress" mode. Merely racking the slide as you would to chamber a round does not put the pistol into this mode. Of course you have to decock the pistol after you cock it. This is no different than other DA/SA pistols.

And the grip has changeable backstraps to allow a shooter to adjust the grip, but that's neither here nor there.
quote:
Originally posted by lechiffre:
As I Understand it the blade (or hinge) that's in most triggers is there to prevent the trigger from moving under inertia if the gun is dropped.
If that were true, then other pistols, such as the Beretta 92 or the SIG P22x-series pistols- and other DA/SA pistols would have this feature. This would include the P99 as well, which has the shortest, lightest release of any striker-fired pistol and as you know, the P99 has no such feature. Otherwise, these pistols would not be drop-safe if you dropped one of them while they were cocked. The Beretta 92 is a very good example. Do you think during the extensive US armed forces pistol trials of the 1980s, the 92 might have been drop-tested with the hammer cocked? You bet it was. Furthermore, pistols such as the Glock, which uses a partially cocked striker would be even less prone to the inertial discharge you describe, since there is a relatively long rearward movement of the trigger required in order to complete the rearward travel of the striker before firing is even possible.

No, I think the "prevent inertial fire" thing is either a myth which keeps being repeated, or it may have been a stated intention of the feature early on, but in actual use, it just doesn't work that way. The practical function of the safety blade is to prevent the trigger from being pressed unless a finger is on the face of the trigger, pressing rearward. The safety blade prevents objects which may enter the trigger guard from pushing the trigger rearward. Anyone skeptical of this should try getting a Glock to release the striker by putting objects of the trigger guard. It can be done, when you carefully and consciously put an object- such as the eraser end of a pencil exactly in the right spot, but it may take you several attempts; specific types of objects manipulated in specific ways. This is why carriers of these types of pistols are cautioned to always employ a holster which covers the trigger guard, and never use holsterless carry.

The "trigger safety" is simply a drop safety, which the P99 has as well. Instead of a lever-in-trigger drop safety, the entire trigger pivots to the rear, and you can test this feature by taking the slide off of the pistol and pulling the trigger bar itself rearward. The "trigger safety" on the P99 will stop rearward travel, from both the "trigger-forward" position with the DA or AS trigger modes, or the "trigger-rear" position in SA mode.

It is there to stop the pistol from firing due to the inertia of the trigger and trigger bar moving to the "rear" in a "muzzle-up" drop. Without that lever-in-trigger there, many of these striker fired pistols would not be drop safe.

Hammer fired pistols dropped in the "muzzle-up" position would impact the hammer first, and many of them have the trigger bar move forward instead of rearward, canceling out the forces that would push both to the rear, whereas many of the striker fired pistols these days have the trigger and trigger bar both moving to the rear.

I've had this discussion many times on the Walther Forum with people making very unsafe modifications to the triggers on their pistols there. There was one member there who bypassed the "trigger safety" and did five drops from (if I recall correctly) waist high. The primered cartridge fired (if I recall correctly) three out of five drops.

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