quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

I'd be curious since you say it CAN'T be top of the line since to be top of the line means there can be no budget associated with it, what would you say IS 'top of the line' and why your top of the line is considered top of the line?

Does that mean only a Bugatti can be a 'top of the line' in the car world? Or can a measly Ferrari be considered top of the line? Trying to understand how this all works.

Top of the line is not cast frames and MIM parts.
Top of the line is Atlas, Infinity, Phoenix, Korth, etc

I speak from experience. I own and shoot all the high end handguns. CZ makes fine shooting budget oriented duty and competition guns. I own or have owned dozens of them from all different eras. I know what CZ is and isn’t.

One thing I’ll gu s CZ all the credit in the world for is the CZ75 design. Now we have companies like Phoenix and FK BRNO making top of the line pistols using this great design.

But is it only based on price? You mentioned no pistol based on a budget could be high end. Is that true with my car example, or are you only focused on how a part is made?

And are you suggesting the CZ'd shoot better if their parts were not MIM - that somehow accuracy is affected by that? I'm trying to understand the your statement. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

I'd be curious since you say it CAN'T be top of the line since to be top of the line means there can be no budget associated with it, what would you say IS 'top of the line' and why your top of the line is considered top of the line?

Does that mean only a Bugatti can be a 'top of the line' in the car world? Or can a measly Ferrari be considered top of the line? Trying to understand how this all works.

Top of the line is not cast frames and MIM parts.
Top of the line is Atlas, Infinity, Phoenix, Korth, etc

I speak from experience. I own and shoot all the high end handguns. CZ makes fine shooting budget oriented duty and competition guns. I own or have owned dozens of them from all different eras. I know what CZ is and isn’t.

One thing I’ll gu s CZ all the credit in the world for is the CZ75 design. Now we have companies like Phoenix and FK BRNO making top of the line pistols using this great design.

But is it only based on price? You mentioned no pistol based on a budget could be high end. Is that true with my car example, or are you only focused on how a part is made?

And are you suggesting the CZ'd shoot better if their parts were not MIM - that somehow accuracy is affected by that? I'm trying to understand the your statement. Thanks.

Top of the line to me is more than just performance. Top of the line should be built out of the best materials. No it’s not just based on price. It’s based on build quality, parts quality, accuracy, durability, etc. CZ up until recently left a hell of a lot to be desired in a couple of those categories.

I’m actually surprised anyone would refer to a CZ as a top of the line pistol. Could maybe be from lack of experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

I'd be curious since you say it CAN'T be top of the line since to be top of the line means there can be no budget associated with it, what would you say IS 'top of the line' and why your top of the line is considered top of the line?

Does that mean only a Bugatti can be a 'top of the line' in the car world? Or can a measly Ferrari be considered top of the line? Trying to understand how this all works.

Top of the line is not cast frames and MIM parts.
Top of the line is Atlas, Infinity, Phoenix, Korth, etc

I speak from experience. I own and shoot all the high end handguns. CZ makes fine shooting budget oriented duty and competition guns. I own or have owned dozens of them from all different eras. I know what CZ is and isn’t.

One thing I’ll gu s CZ all the credit in the world for is the CZ75 design. Now we have companies like Phoenix and FK BRNO making top of the line pistols using this great design.

But is it only based on price? You mentioned no pistol based on a budget could be high end. Is that true with my car example, or are you only focused on how a part is made?

And are you suggesting the CZ'd shoot better if their parts were not MIM - that somehow accuracy is affected by that? I'm trying to understand the your statement. Thanks.

Top of the line to me is more than just performance. Top of the line should be built out of the best materials. No it’s not just based on price. It’s based on build quality, parts quality, accuracy, durability, etc. CZ up until recently left a hell of a lot to be desired in a couple of those categories.

I’m actually surprised anyone would refer to a CZ as a top of the line pistol. Could maybe be from lack of experience.

Interesting. I'm sure Ferrari owners will be disappointed to know they are not "top of the line" cars.

You can be rude all you'd like and make assumptions about peoples "experience". I really don't care what someone behind a keyboard says about me as I'm past the age of 8.

I'm surprised you're so worked up over this honestly. Kinda speaks volumes.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
BAC, I can understand your position, but at the same time I ask that your understand the situation and perspective.

Every thread you make is of a 3k~ pistol and we recognize you like quality firearms, so to come in and kind of bash what I’m considering top of my budget, not what I can afford, just what I’m willing to spend, doesn’t look that great.

It’s a bit like the guy in the cul-de-sac with a corvette that says your Mazda isn’t top of the line. He’s technically correct but we’re just all thinking his dick is small and no one is inviting them to taco night.

quote:

Originally posted by Brother:
Hey I like my vette, but I needs those tacos, don't snub me bro!

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
BAC, I can understand your position, but at the same time I ask that your understand the situation and perspective.

Every thread you make is of a 3k~ pistol and we recognize you like quality firearms, so to come in and kind of bash what I’m considering top of my budget, not what I can afford, just what I’m willing to spend, doesn’t look that great.

It’s a bit like the guy in the cul-de-sac with a corvette that says your Mazda isn’t top of the line. He’s technically correct but we’re just all thinking his dick is small and no one is inviting them to taco night.

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

We’ll, that’s your opinion.

But even giving it in the context of this thread comes off a little bit of a smug move.

“of the best quality or among the most expensive of its kind available”. The word available is quite important there. Doesn’t mean physically available to me, means within means.

Fair enough

CZ does not use top of the line parts or manufacturing processes. They use the best available to make them affordable. That’s a fact, not an opinion. I never said they weren't good pistols. Now 20 years ago, I thought CZ’s were pretty rough, despite always using an outstanding design. Today they are much more refined and more durable.

Here's my TSO and TS2 RG. I do prefer the TS2's new frame, but its not a big deal either way.

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

We’ll, that’s your opinion.

But even giving it in the context of this thread comes off a little bit of a smug move.

“of the best quality or among the most expensive of its kind available”. The word available is quite important there. Doesn’t mean physically available to me, means within means.

Fair enough

CZ does not use top of the line parts or manufacturing processes. They use the best available to make them affordable. That’s a fact, not an opinion. I never said they weren't good pistols. Now 20 years ago, I thought CZ’s were pretty rough, despite always using an outstanding design. Today they are much more refined and more durable.

Here's my TSO and TS2 RG. I do prefer the TS2's new frame, but its not a big deal either way.

Do you have a preference on the angle of the gas petal one over the other? The green looks like it would be comfortable with the thumb angle.

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

We’ll, that’s your opinion.

But even giving it in the context of this thread comes off a little bit of a smug move.

“of the best quality or among the most expensive of its kind available”. The word available is quite important there. Doesn’t mean physically available to me, means within means.

Fair enough

CZ does not use top of the line parts or manufacturing processes. They use the best available to make them affordable. That’s a fact, not an opinion. I never said they weren't good pistols. Now 20 years ago, I thought CZ’s were pretty rough, despite always using an outstanding design. Today they are much more refined and more durable.

Here's my TSO and TS2 RG. I do prefer the TS2's new frame, but its not a big deal either way.

Do you have a preference on the angle of the gas petal one over the other? The green looks like it would be comfortable with the thumb angle.

quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:
I really do love my top of the line CZ's.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
BAC,

I’ll admit, I love your collections and you’re a pretty easy going guy! Thanks for the banter.