quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:
I was giving my real life experience on a variety of CZ's.

I'm sure you were. I have the S2O, also, and the answer to hrcjon is still no, the TSO in DA/SA doesn't exist.

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:
I think the CZ TS2 Racing Green is next on my list.

Of all my pistols, Sigs, Glocks, HK's and others, the Racing Green is my magical "if I could only have one non-carry gun" gun. It's that's good IMO.

I appreciate all the input but I'm kind of with Q on this one, after comparing all the models a bit more, that huge gas peddle, mag release, and cheese grater-esque profile of the TSO is pretty off-putting.

I also prefer the boxed dust cover of the TS2 compared to the radiused cover on the TSO.

I wouldn't complain with the TSO at the right price but might aim my search more toward TS2 in blue or Orange.

James, if you go with the TS2, they don't offer the TS2 Orange. Only the Blue and Racing Green are available in the US at this time. But, if you like orange, you can always get the TS2 Blue and exchange the stock grips for one of LOK orange offerings, either in thin/flat or palm swell profile.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
James, if you go with the TS2, they don't offer the TS2 Orange. Only the Blue and Racing Green are available in the US at this time. But, if you like orange, you can always get the TS2 Blue and exchange the stock grips for one of LOK orange offerings, either in thin/flat or palm swell profile.

Getting my colors mixed up, not sure why I was thinking TS2 came in OJ. I'm sure you've seen my love of Orange at this point. I'll likely throw some LOK grips on it.

I bought a TS in 40SW from one of my favorite dealers that he got for a guy and he never came back for ... to say its amazing is an understatement. It came from the factory with 3 sets so safety & slide release levers and 3 different mag release buttons of different length & diameters.
I'm not a big fan of the 40 but in perusing the CZ forms I found that I could have a 9mm barrel fit to it too. So now I've got 3 9mm mags and 3 40SW mags and both barrels. Its not a snazzy looking as the Orange, but its amazingly smooth like every CZ I own and he gave me a great deal on it

I have a few P229s in 40 and while I didn’t like it 10 years ago I’m enjoying it more and more. Being cheaper than 9mm currently doesn’t hurt.

I’ll definitely look for 9mm, but like my P229 SSE, if the right deal comes along in .40, a conversion is always an easy option.

I have the Shadow 2/Black/Blue, as well as the TSO. Both are great, but I like (and shoot) the TSO better!

quote:

Originally posted by Reedman:
I have the Shadow 2/Black/Blue, as well as the TSO. Both are great, but I like (and shoot) the TSO better!

Have you had any work done on the Shadow 2 trigger? I've been thinking about getting their trigger kit or sending my blue to them but haven't done it yet.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Been seeing used for $1500~.

I see it as a top of the line pistol for not much more than modern run of this kill firearms.

I think I should pick one up, even if I sell a P220-10 to fund it.

CZ uses cast frames and MIM parts. Nothing they make is top of the line or even close to it.

That being said, I own a number of competition oriented CZ, including the TSO. They shoot great.

It’s top of the line for me.

I’m not paying 10k for Yost firearms or competition race guns. So practically speaking it’s top of the line for me. Your collection, from what I’ve seen has a different baseline.

And I’m sure there is a guy out there with a closet full of 100k European shotguns.

So yeah it is top of the line, for me.

ETA: Sounds snarky but is true, my son thinks Red Robin is the best restaurant out there, cause his culinary experience pinnacle consists of hamburgers and hot dogs for 13 years, who am I to tell him he’s wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
It’s top of the line for me.

I’m not paying 10k for Yost firearms or competition race guns. So practically speaking it’s top of the line for me. Your collection, from what I’ve seen has a different baseline.

And I’m sure there is a guy out there with a closet full of 100k European shotguns.

So yeah it is top of the line, for me.

ETA: Sounds snarky but is true, my son thinks Red Robin is the best restaurant out there, cause his culinary experience pinnacle consists of hamburgers and hot dogs for 13 years, who am I to tell him he’s wrong?

I owned a German Sig X5 years ago. My CZ Racing Green runs circles around it in every way possible.

To your point, what is "top of the line"? Most expensive? Best shooting? Other?

I find it interesting that the with the guys at our competitions, who have WAAAAAAAY more money to spend on guns than I do, and literally have no issues with $6K pistols, CZ is the most popular pistol used.

Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

I can't speak on the TSO, I think they're ugly. But can whole heartedly recommend a worked CZ 75. I've owned a stock CZ 75 SA for a number of years but always wanted a satin stainless. When I heard they were discountinued 2 years ago, I bought a new S/S satin CZ75B from CZ Custom and had them do their magic on the entire gun including converting it to single action only. Parts are easy to come by, including magazines for the 75, and the trigger is as good as on my Ed Brown and the gun shoots amazingly. So I'd consider going that route......Or buying the gun you want (if it's a TSO) directly from CZ custom or Cajun gun works and have them work their magic on the gun before even sending it to you. It really wasn't that expensive for the work they did.....like an extra $500......

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

We’ll, that’s your opinion.

But even giving it in the context of this thread comes off a little bit of a smug move.

“of the best quality or among the most expensive of its kind available”. The word available is quite important there. Doesn’t mean physically available to me, means within means.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

We’ll, that’s your opinion.

But even giving it in the context of this thread comes off a little bit of a smug move.

“of the best quality or among the most expensive of its kind available”. The word available is quite important there. Doesn’t mean physically available to me, means within means.

Fair enough

CZ does not use top of the line parts or manufacturing processes. They use the best available to make them affordable. That’s a fact, not an opinion. I never said they weren't good pistols. Now 20 years ago, I thought CZ’s were pretty rough, despite always using an outstanding design. Today they are much more refined and more durable.

Here's my TSO and TS2 RG. I do prefer the TS2's new frame, but its not a big deal either way.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bac1023,

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

I'd be curious since you say it CAN'T be top of the line since to be top of the line means there can be no budget associated with it, what would you say IS 'top of the line' and why your top of the line is considered top of the line?

Does that mean only a Bugatti can be a 'top of the line' in the car world? Or can a measly Ferrari be considered top of the line? Trying to understand how this all works.

I owned a TSO and it was the best shooting pistol I'd ever shot at the range. I sold it to purchase the TS2 Green, my Holy Grail. I also own a couple Shadow 2s and you just can't go wrong with a CZ. Ergos and trigger similar to a 2011, amazing!

quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

I'd be curious since you say it CAN'T be top of the line since to be top of the line means there can be no budget associated with it, what would you say IS 'top of the line' and why your top of the line is considered top of the line?

Does that mean only a Bugatti can be a 'top of the line' in the car world? Or can a measly Ferrari be considered top of the line? Trying to understand how this all works.

Top of the line is not cast frames and MIM parts.
Top of the line is Atlas, Infinity, Phoenix, Korth, etc

I speak from experience. I own and shoot all the high end handguns. CZ makes fine shooting budget oriented duty and competition guns. I own or have owned dozens of them from all different eras. I know what CZ is and isn’t.

One thing I’ll gu s CZ all the credit in the world for is the CZ75 design. Now we have companies like Phoenix and FK BRNO making top of the line pistols using this great design.

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by Shadowboxer:

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Top of the line for a particular budget doesn’t make it a top of the line pistol is all I’m saying. There’s absolutely nothing too of the line about CZ. I will say they have come a long, long way in the past 15-20 years. They used to be downright crude in a lot of ways.

Listen, the TSO is an awesome shooting pistol. It’s a great value for the dollar. Let’s just not get carried away here. It’s a mass produced firearm. They are so popular because it’s the cheapest way to be competitive.

I'd be curious since you say it CAN'T be top of the line since to be top of the line means there can be no budget associated with it, what would you say IS 'top of the line' and why your top of the line is considered top of the line?

Does that mean only a Bugatti can be a 'top of the line' in the car world? Or can a measly Ferrari be considered top of the line? Trying to understand how this all works.

Top of the line is not cast frames and MIM parts.
Top of the line is Atlas, Infinity, Phoenix, Korth, etc

I speak from experience. I own and shoot all the high end handguns. CZ makes fine shooting budget oriented duty and competition guns. I own or have owned dozens of them from all different eras. I know what CZ is and isn’t.

One thing I’ll gu s CZ all the credit in the world for is the CZ75 design. Now we have companies like Phoenix and FK BRNO making top of the line pistols using this great design.

But is it only based on price? You mentioned no pistol based on a budget could be high end. Is that true with my car example, or are you only focused on how a part is made?

And are you suggesting the CZ'd shoot better if their parts were not MIM - that somehow accuracy is affected by that? I'm trying to understand the your statement. Thanks.