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| Little ray of sunshine  |
The premise that a large number of people will not buy a pistol without a manual safety is demonstrably false. Those pistols sell in large numbers, and have for 35 or 40 years now. I don't know if they are a majority, but it is certainly a very large proportion of the total. Experience shows that people are not shooting themselves or others in any appreciable numbers with those pistols. The design works. So, there is a minority of people who will not buy a pistol without a manual safety, and I suspect that number will get smaller over time. (EDIT: I missed Rey HRH's post when I wrote this, but I basically repeated his post.) The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Member |
While I think the anti manual safety mindset is unfortunate, that doesn’t mean what you wrote is wrong. Gun companies would be putting awesome manual safeties on guns if that is what the majority demanded. | |||
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| His diet consists of black coffee, and sarcasm.  |
I don't buy even the "nearly" part. It is certainly possible to fire an unintended shot after a safety is disengaged. | |||
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E tan e epi tas |
Doesn’t really matter what you use, you need to be fluent in the manual of arms, as well as its idiosyncrasies or risks. I do believe many striker fired guns come with an added layer of training/risk associated with them for the gain of a more predictable faster trigger. So you will carry DA/SA (like I prefer) aha problem solved…….well not if you don’t decock when you should or decock in a safe location should the mechanics fail. So I will carry a 1911 or other gun with a safety….problem solved…..until the safety isn’t used or is used improperly etc. So I will carry a club until you drop the club on your foot. The point I am making is barring a truly dangerous design or defect All weapons are dangerous. That’s kind of the point. Know your chosen gear, know it’s manual of arms, know it’s inherent risks, know your training obligations to the platform and …….. pays your monies and takes your chances. Know learn what works for YOU. Best thing we can all do is ALWAYS reiterate the rules of gun safety to ourself EVERY TIME we handle firearms and preach said rules to the masses. Complacency breeds holes.  "Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man." | |||
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| Imagination and focus become reality |
Most of my pistols have a manual safety. I don't mind them, I like them. However, at times I have a gripe with grip safeties. On some 1911s if you don't grip the pistol just right, the grip safety keeps the pistol from firing when you may need it to fire. That's one of several reasons I prefer my HKs, no grip safeties. I'm sure that is also a training issue to an extent, but it can be unnerving. | |||
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Member |
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| Member |
Accidents are unintended events, by definition. Human errors and accidental firearm discharges occur, despite repetitive training. A manual safety will reduce incidents which occur during the draw and reholstering process, or when a weapon is dropped or otherwise mishandled. Safety levers have been included on pistols and long arms for generations. They are still worthwhile for most gun owners. | |||
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| Member |
Has anyone that carries a weapon with a manual safety ever discovered that your safety was accidentally disengaged? How often to you check your safety? | |||
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Baroque Bloke |
A “minority of people” can, in fact, be “a large number”. Serious about crackers | |||
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Still finding my way |
Let's see... Another thread complaining about lack of manual safeties and how they don't feel safe.... We have a thread where conservatives are outraged by what leftists are outraged with... A thread about some actor's death who hasn't been relevant since the 70's... One more about .45 vs 9mm and I'll have a Sig Forum bingo! | |||
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Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
Thanks cslinger, great post! No matter what safety features you design into a firearm, the real danger is ultimately the nut behind the trigger. Humans get complacent and do stupid crap...sometimes that's even exacerbated by trusting a mechanical device to make up for laziness on our part. Like people relying on self-driving cars to do all the work and sleeping/reading/etc when they used to be driving...works great right until it drives you into the side of a truck. A manual safety can add a layer of security, but we still need to be vigilant about our own actions as we bear the ultimate responsibility for safety. | |||
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| Member |
I'm surprised no one has said this, but the holster is the safety. _____________________________ Off finding Galt's Gulch | |||
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| Member |
Not when the pistol is out of the holster A negligent discharge can occur while trying to clear a malfunction, and while manually chambering the first round. A foreign object that unknowingly enters the holster can result in a negligent discharge while holstering the pistol. A manual trigger safety that is engaged can prevent those negligent discharges. | |||
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| Big Stack |
Are you sure about this, and how? AFAIK no one is collecting data on this, and certainly not broken out by gun make and/or fire control characteristics. But there is anecdotal evidence. It isn't called Glock leg for nothing. And every time a negligent discharge show up on Youtube or similar, more often than not it's a Glock that did the damage.
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| Member |
I converted my P365 to a manual safety. That was probably 2 years ago and it never been an issue. I’m not trying to be Doc Holliday outdrawing Johnny Ringo. I’m carrying it loaded as an EDC and couldn’t see a compelling argument against the safety. It comes down to what you practice. + | |||
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| Member |
Every single one of my 365's has been converted to a MS. I don't trust any striker gun appendix carry without a safety which is why I have 365's with a safety, J frames, and HK LEM's, and assorted hammer guns. My Glocks and whatnot don't do appendix. Maybe I am being paranoid, maybe I am not. Manual safeties have their place. If you carry a MS gun you have to practice. | |||
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| Member |
I don't remember it happening to me, but I had a buddy who was carried a cheapo Raven 25acp loose in his hip pocket as a backup while on duty. He used to complain about finding the safety had came off all the time. Luckily he sold it before he ended up shooting himself. | |||
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| Member |
I have had some holsters with a thumb snap that would disengage the safety on a 1911. They were promptly replaced. | |||
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| Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
I carried a 1911 for a bit at one point, and had the ambidextrous manual sefty get bumped and disengaged a couple of times. After that experience, I replaced the ambi safeties on both of my 1911s that had them, and when fitting the new parts paid particular attention to the action of the detent to make sure I got solid positive engagement and disengagement. I haven't had a problem since, but I don't really carry those guns anymore either. | |||
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Member |
A lot of 1911 holsters aren't designed to accommodate ambidextrous safeties and can inadvertently knock them off during insertion. My usual carry gun is a 1911 but it does not have an ambi safety. My other 1911, the one that resides on my nightstand, does have one, but it never sees a holster. My first semi-auto was a Colt 1911. I learned to manage the safety on that gun and still (40 years later) feel a little uneasy without a manual safety. I've owned others since (Sig and Beretta DA/SA's, Springfield XD's, even a Glock or two), but a quality 1911 is still what I'm the most comfortable and confident with. The S&W Shield that I carry in the summer is the version with a manual safety. | |||
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