quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
Only the fudiest of fudds carry ball in a 1911. It’s 2019, it’s not 1978 anymore.

Nah, the real fudds 'candy stripe' the mags, FMJ, JHP, FMJ, JHP...

I've actually considered the possible advantage of doing that for woods carry. Yeah, yeah, I know: Shooting a bear or other large animal is more likely to achieve no more than to piss him/her off even more than he/she already is. But, if that's your last line of defence, anyway, I figure better ball ammo than JHP designed for softer targets.

Speer 200gr. TMJ in +P sku#53655 at 1080fps or
Speer 200gr. TMJ in standard pressure sku#53655 at
975fps. Both would make sense as woods ammo.

A long time ago I used to carry 185gr Remington Golden Sabers. Later I switched to 230gr Gold Dots and they have fed and fired in every single 1911 I ever owned (over a dozen) including a 1944 Remington Rand.

99% of my 45s shot JHP fine right out of the box

At the moment, I have Hornady 230 JHO +P, Winchester Ranger 230 +P and Speer Gold Dot 230 on hand

All three work just fine in my Defensive Sidearms. I never bothered testing them in my target guns

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
A long time ago I used to carry 185gr Remington Golden Sabers.

That's what the GS I had already are. Bought some Hornady 185 gr. Critical Defense, as the bullet profile looked like it'd work. (Paid too much for it, though.) Then another LGS had 185 gr. Rem. GS for $15/25, so I bought a couple boxes. I wanted to try 230 gr., but nobody has it. I know the 185 gr. works and, as the gun store guy said: "Ya think anybody's gonna notice the difference?"

The three that did not work for me, btw, were

• Winchester 185 gr. Silvertip,
  
• Federal 165 gr. HydraShok Personal Defense Low Recoil, and
  
• Speer 185 gr. LE Gold Dot.
  

The Federal is what I'm using in my Sig P320F home defense pistol.

I recall some years back(during 1980 class at Gunsite)that Jeff Cooper was very interested in the effectiveness of pistol rounds during shootings. Col Cooper interviewed military and LEO’s for a number of years. Afterward, based on the experience of those involved, Col Cooper concluded that 45ACP Military Ball would stop 19 out of 20 times with a solid toro hit.

It has been nearly forty years, and new bullet technology certainly has improved things, but the use of 230 grain military ball still seems to be a viable choice. I would be far more concerned with weapon reliability than what “Lucky Gunner” has to say about ammo choices. The 1911 with ball ammo is a formidable and effective weapon. Hope that answers the original question posted by OP.

I use Federal HST 230 gr. in my 1911s. I used to use 230 gr. Gold Dots. Either is fine, no problems with either one. I may switch to HST 230 gr. +P in my USPc 45. I currently use Golden Saber 230 gr. in that one.

Possibly, some "ramp and throat" work could be done to make it less ammo-sensitive, but with the accuracy it is displaying, I'd be very reluctant to tamper with it.

Springfield Custom Shop PRO’s.

230 Golden Sabre bonded
230 Ranger SXT

CMC Power Mags 8 and 10 rounders

Never a problem

All of my .45 1911s fed HPs just fine, but both of my 9mm EMPs needed work before they'd feed HPs reliably.

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Walker:
I recall some years back(during 1980 class at Gunsite)that Jeff Cooper was very interested in the effectiveness of pistol rounds during shootings. Col Cooper interviewed military and LEO’s for a number of years. Afterward, based on the experience of those involved, Col Cooper concluded that 45ACP Military Ball would stop 19 out of 20 times with a solid toro hit.

It has been nearly forty years, and new bullet technology certainly has improved things, but the use of 230 grain military ball still seems to be a viable choice. I would be far more concerned with weapon reliability than what “Lucky Gunner” has to say about ammo choices. The 1911 with ball ammo is a formidable and effective weapon. Hope that answers the original question posted by OP.

Sitting here wondering if that is because the ball ammo exited more often than hp?
Especially if it went through the spine on the way out.

Carrying FMJ for self defense in any caliber is just plain stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by 4859:
Carrying FMJ for self defense in any caliber is just plain stupid.

I disagree, especially with the "in any caliber" portion. Generally, FMJ is not an ideal option. But there are a few reasons you might end up carrying FMJ, other than that you're just plain stupid:

1. FMJ is all you have available, or it's all that the only pistol you have available will feed reliably. FMJ bullets are better than no bullets.

2. Your only handgun available is chambered in a subpar caliber with marginal penetration, like .22 LR, .25 ACP, or .32 S&W. The extra penetration afforded by FMJ would be more useful than the marginally greater wound size afforded by JHP, in a situation like that. As above, any gun is better than no gun.

3. You're carrying the handgun for defense against large deadly animals, like bears. For example, while not traditional FMJ, most of the dedicated dangerous game handgun loads use solid metal, non-expanding bullets made from copper or hard cast lead. Not JHP. As above, in these situations as well, penetration trumps expansion.

4. You're limited to FMJ based on laws or policies.


Granted, I'm playing Devil's Advocate a bit, and these scenarios will be the exception rather than the norm. The ideal option if your handgun is in an inadequate caliber, or won't feed JHPs reliably, is to sell it and buy a different handgun in a better defensive caliber that will feed JHPs. And even in the military, the prohibition against expanding bullets is becoming blurred. Plus, for locations that prohibit JHP rounds, there are several styles of non-JHP expanding bullets available nowadays, like Hornady's various polymer-filled cavity bullets, Federal EFMJ, and Corbon Powerball.

I don't carry it, but my 1911 is loaded with horandy 185gr JHP (they just happen to have green tips because it's the zombie ammo from a few years ago.)

I would never carry ball in any caliber 9mm and above. Just rock the Golden Sabers since they are a very good choice and they work in your gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
I would never carry ball in any caliber 9mm and above. Just rock the Golden Sabers since they are a very good choice and they work in your gun.

That's the plan.

I left the 1911 as it was from its last range trip. Bought some more 185 gr. Golden Saber and a box of Hornady 185 gr. Critical Defense to test. Going to take the 1911 and my Walther PPS M2 (returned from the recall work last week) to the range today and function test them both.

I'm surprised I haven't found anyone who loads the first round of each magazine with ball to use as a warm up when the gunfight starts... just kidding...

Any modern quality 1911 should run 100%out of the box with JHP's. Usually I find the magazines are the picky part, so stick with Wilson's and the like. Factory magazines, like Colt at least, are usually ok as well.

Older USGI 1911's and the like typically prefer ball. I've got a few and only one runs well with JHP's.

I'm of the belief that what you buy should run as intended. You should get what you pay for, or have the manufacturer make it right.

I carry Federal HST in my 1911 and haven't had any hiccups. I use Wilson Combat mags.

I have a Wilson & a few Springfield 1911s. I use Winchester Ranger 230gr for carry & I reload Hornady 230gr XTP for practice. I’m cheap & I try to save my carry ammo, but I must have run a good 100k rounds of my reloads through my guns & I’ve never had a feeding problem.

Back in the 80's I loaded my 1911 with ball ammo. Mind you this is a surplus M1911A1. Since then I use HP's. My current carry ammo is Golden Sabre 230 grain in both my 1911's. I also have a Colt Lightweight Commander.


Lock N Load


Michael

USMC (Ret)