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 When hollow points are plentiful in both loaded ammo and components it is foolish to make the choice to carry FMJ. It is plain stupid. ----------------------------- Always carry. Never tell. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
Cool. So the dangerous game guides carrying .44 or .454 revolvers with solid copper or hard cast rounds as a backup are stupid and/or foolish, because .44/.454 JHPs are available? And the poor little old lady on a fixed income, whose only gun available to her is her late husband's .25 ACP pocket pistol, is stupid/foolish to load it with FMJ because .25 ACP JHPs are available? These gel tests might be helpful before answering that last one. Keep in mind that the recommended minimum penetration for a defensive handgun is 12". Gold Dot JHPs (inadequate penetration)  FMJ (barely adequate penetration)  Test source: http://mousegunaddict.blogspot...parison-testing.html Similar test results, using two different brands of .25 ACP JHP and FMJ: http://mousegunaddict.blogspot...parison-testing.html Additional testing showing 3 brands of .25 ACP JHP with inadequate penetration, and 2 brands of .25 FMJ faring marginally better: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/...quacy/#axzz5mb9mnC5W There are video tests available on YouTube with similar results. Yes, in most calibers and situations, JHP is a much better option than FMJ. But there are valid exceptions. | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
I look at this kind of like the comments some people make suggesting such-and-such a calibre is inadequate for self-defence. Better the gun/round you have than the one you don't. Or, put another way: Would you care to be shot with .45 ACP ball ammo?  Given my druthers: Yes, I'd prefer JHP over ball for defence against two-legged critters. I also prefer my .40 S&W over my 9mm over my .380 ACP. I carry and shoot what I can. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| That rug really tied the room together.  |
Runs fine on Golden Sabre ammo? Then buy Golden Sabre by the case, and carry it. https://www.targetsportsusa.co...s45apbb-p-76500.aspx ______________________________________________________ Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow | |||
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| That rug really tied the room together. |
Disagree. First and most important, is the gun reliable, with the ammo in it? If an older gun ONLY runs reliably on FMJ, then use FMJ ammo. Second, not all hollow points are created equal. For instance, in .38 special, Hornady sells a lite 90 grain JHP, and advertises it as a low recoil load. Its a terrible load, and gets like 8-10 inches of penetration. A 158 grain lead semi wadcutter (non hollowpoint) would be superior in a defensive shooting to that light 90 grain JHP. And FMJ .45ACP being terrible? Hardly. There is a large probability that it will put down a bad guy just fine. ______________________________________________________ Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
It may be my R1's issues with JHP were just break-in blues. I brought Rem. Golden Saber, Hornady Critical Defense and Federal HydraShok Low-Recoil with me to the range today. The GS fed fine. No surprise there. The Hornady stuff also fed fine--which I expected, based on the bullet shape. But the Federal stuff, which had not fed the first round from a full mag reliably last Thursday, fed fine with both a stock mag and a Wilson mag today. I'm debating going to the range again tomorrow, while the pistol's still good and dirty, to give the Speer Gold Dot and Winchester Silvertip another try. I suspect at least the Gold Dot will feed. More curiosity than anything else. I think I'll stick with the Golden Saber, in any event. It fed reliably right out of the gate and has a good track record, from all I've read.
What I've been shooting is actually this: Remington Golden Saber 45 ACP AUTO Ammo 185 Grain Brass Jacketed Hollow Point The +P version of it did well in Lucky Gunner's gel tests, as did the 230 gr. standard pressure version. This version is a bit over 100 fps slower and a bit more than 100 ft/lbs less muzzle energy than the +P. But it's 100 fps faster than the 230 gr. and has 30 ft/lbs more muzzle energy. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Member |
When I carry a 1911, it is either an Ed Brown or a Sig Nightmare. I rarely carry them with other than Ball. Fudd | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
If that's what you have that's what you have. As I wrote, earlier: I certainly wouldn't want to be on the receiving end. That being said: Street Effectiveness of .45 ACP loads would suggest 45 ACP ball is quite a bit less effective than any common JHP load. (N.B.: I've no idea from where that page's stats were derived, so caveat emptor.) "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun  |
JHP's for self defense. | |||
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Old Air Cavalryman |
No way! I load a tracer in mine!  "Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying who shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I, send me." | |||
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| Member |
With that kind of accuracy, I would make it a competition gun. I would not carry a finicky gun or FMJs for self defense. ----------------------------------------- Roll Tide! Glock Certified Armorer NRA Certified Firearms Instructor | |||
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| I will fear no evil.. Psalm 23:4 |
Federal HST 230Gr. JHP | |||
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Certified All Positions |
Holy shit guys. Just stop. Stop calling FMJ "foolish" and all this other horseshit. Stop it. Is FMJ more likely to overpenetrate? Yes. Is JHP less likely? Yes. What does this mean in the scope of carrying for self defense? Not a lot. Carry the ammunition that functions in your weapon. Know your target and what is beyond. Try not to shoot innocent people. Stop being fucks to eachother, and cut the crap. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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| Member |
The Springfield "Loaded" 5" 1911 I bought a decade or so ago has always functioned great with any ammo I've tried in it, assuming I'm using decent quality magazines. With subpar magazines, I experience subpar performance, regardless of ammo choice. I use Speer Gold Dot ammo when carrying it for self defense. ------------- $ | |||
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