Thanks to all for their opinions, input and options.

I created the thread with 2 guns in mind. So much for that. Now I have about 5 that I'm considering.

I do have a couple NIB stripped "Multi" AR lowers in the safe, so I'll probably make up a pistol lower, and see what's available for a complete upper after that.

I'll also probably still pick up a 9mm pistol/carbine at some point down the road once availability improves.

I do have a couple pairs of ears; one in the bedroom, the other in a range bag.

This is going to be a really obnoxious post after you just wrote that your choices were increased vs narrowed or clarified, but...
I would agree with others that for potency an AR pistol with ears or a suppressor would be the way to go, but since you are talking in the PDW / PCC arena, and are focussing on ergonomics, don't discount the Beretta CX4 storm.
It is blowback, like the CZ, which means more kick, but also means great reliability and it's only 9mm kick. I have a couple of MPX's -- their triggers are better than a Storm, and they certainly shoot more softly, but the blowbacks are fine, and the Beretta accuracy is about the same for me as the MPX. The remarkable thing about the Storm is that all of the weight is towards the back, and with the magazine in the grip, the balance is excellent, even with its 16" barrel. The length is only 29.5", and it is easy to wield one-handed. With +P+ loads, its velocity is about 1600 fps, and muzzle energy over 600.
As a rifle, there are fewer potential legal issues. And if you do want to do some paperwork and add a suppressor, it easy to shave off 3.5" of the barrel, thread it, and add your can. And at 12", you have still mostly maximized even the +P+ rounds' velocity.
Just thinking about your ergonomics question.
Have fun thinking about all the good choices out there!

You lost me on this one ScotP7. I like the little beretta for sure, its a nice competent inexpensive package. But it is not a compact package which in the end the OP is trying to achieve. The length might be 'only' 29.5 (its actually about 2" longer with a flash suppressor which is the minimum you need to add) but you can have an AR pistol with the LAW folder in the 19" range, an MPX in the 18" range or a bit less and the APC9K I like a couple of inches less than that. Wouldn't make my top 10 list anyway.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,

I would probably choose some sort of AR pistol, except for the muzzle blast and noise. I have an AR pistol with a 10" barrel and the noise even at the range is deafening and the 3' fireball is definitely something I wouldn't want inside. I can't imagine shooting an AR in a confined space. The noise could be handled by either ear protection (but who has time to grab ear protection in an emergency) or suppressor.

If you are still considering 9MM, you might want to consider the Palmetto State Armory AK-V9. Short overall length, 100% reliable, uses cheap PSA 35 round mags or CZ mags, and is very manageable in all conditions.

If you are considering this as a defense weapon for indoor use mainly, the 9MM would be a great choice.

I guess I am the odd man out here.My IMI UZI SMG that resides on my desk as I type this.124 gr IMI Nato ammo.Owned since 1983.Good luck on your choice of weapons

Everyone has time to grab ear protection. put it on the gun and there you go. There is a reason that at a practical level almost every organization that chooses firearms for building entry or defense picks a short barrel ar rather than a 9mm. I shoot a 10.5" or 11" ar all the time outdoors at the range and there is no fireball, deafening noise or any thing like that. And I shoot them indoors all the time too in the winter matches, nothing that would bother me in defense of my home. So not sure your basis?

If you have a P320, this looks like a really handy package:
https://firecontrolunit.com/?p...-one-320-grip-module

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rob1972,

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
Everyone has time to grab ear protection. put it on the gun and there you go. There is a reason that at a practical level almost every organization that chooses firearms for building entry or defense picks a short barrel ar rather than a 9mm. I shoot a 10.5" or 11" ar all the time outdoors at the range and there is no fireball, deafening noise or any thing like that. And I shoot them indoors all the time too in the winter matches, nothing that would bother me in defense of my home. So not sure your basis?

I know special services in Oklahoma and Texas are pretty standardized on the M4, which, without a tax stamp, gets you right back at 16" for a civilian. 11" or shorter begins to narrow your ammo selection, or you start losing your ballistic advantage dramatically.

Over on Silencertalk, there is quite a bit of good comparative info, and, yes, stubby ARs bark sharper & louder than their traditional carbine length bretheren, and certainly more so than even +P 9mm.

I've shot 10.5" & 7.5", and they aren't cataclysmic, but I wouldn't choose to roll out of bed at 2a.m. with one, and expect to be at prime efficiency after firing the first round in the average hallway.

@hrcjon....don't know if your reply was directed at me or not, but at any rate, I'm glad an AR pistol is working for you.

My response meant that in the middle of the night if awakened by some sort of threat, most people would be hard pressed to fumble around, still half asleep, looking for ear protection, or even think about it, when they are presented with a possible home invasion where every second counts. Naturally a suppressor would be great, but not everyone has that installed on their firearm.

As far as the muzzle blast, I'm not sure what you are shooting, but my AR pistol puts out a noticeable fireball that is sometimes noticeable during use outdoors in the shade. I would imagine that indoors it would especially be noticeable and might even be temporarily blinding to both the shooter and the assailant, and the noise from shooting an AR in enclosed areas could even lead to permanent ear damage. Even at my outdoor range with semi enclosed shooting booths, the blast is quite loud and I have been often reminded of it by range officials and even other shooters. The concussion created by shooting a short barrel AR is also a concern.

Few firearms are better than an AR at fending off threats and a AR pistol would be no different, plus it's compact size is a big plus, but personally I would prefer something for indoor use that is a little less drastic than an AR, but something that could still get the job done, but everyone to their own.