I would suggest you consider a Shockwave as well. Extremely easy to maneuver with. I'm not suggesting laying aside the AR completely, but for close quarters maneuvering the Shockwave/Tac-14 are hard to beat.

Regarding the Banshee. They are definitely neat; we've recently had a couple of the Imperial Stormtrooper White versions in 9mm and 10mm come through as transfers. Really Kewl. But has CMMG finally fixed the extractor spring failure issues with that design?

I have a properly SBRd CZ Scorpion and I have had the opportunity to shoot a full auto MPX. I’d go with the CZ Scorpion for the following reasons:
1. Magazines are plentiful and significantly cheaper;
2. CZ will be supporting the Scorpion well down the road. SIG? It’s a crap shoot. The interview recently posted on the forum regarding SIG’s product line clearly established that they are more than happy to discontinue a product and move another direction overnight;
3. Multiple vendors from CZ Custom, HBI, Magpul, etc. make upgrades and other options for the Scorpion that you can actually find at a decent price;
4. There is a working binary trigger for the CZ if that is something you are interested in;
5. The blowback system is simple and reliable. The recoil, while slightly more than the MPX it is still not an issue. Remember you are shooting a 9mm not a 300 Ultra Mag and this applies when considering the CZ is blowback and the MPX is a gas piston system; and
6. In my experience, both are completely reliable but the CZ is substantially cheaper.

While substantially more expensive, you may want to look into a bullpup rifle like the IWI Tavor, Desert Tech MSR, or Steyr AUG. You get all the benefits of a 16” barrel with the compact features of a SBR and you don’t have to wait for a tax stamp.

Finally, how about a Remington V3 Tactical, IWI Tavor TS12, or a Benelli M2? Buck shot is an excellent defensive round and the 18” barrels are still easy to maneuver in tight spaces.

Edited to add that many of my local SWAT teams still use PDWs including the MPX and the MP5. I've heard that another agency is using or looking at the CZ Scorpion EVO A3 but I have not confirmed that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BB61,

Looks like the new CMMG builds (since late 2019) have a new Mk10 spring that is supposed to solve the problem some have experienced. Probably a good idea to check the spring as your round count goes up.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MagnumU,

I’m not happy with the size of my mpx pistol (i had the barrel cut down to 4”).
Anyone with a 9mm Banshee post a comparison pick to the MPX?

I looked at the Scorpio and MPX and bought an MPX. Now I’m looking at the Banshee while waiting for PSA to release their MP5 clone.

I have a Banshee in .45ACP and it is probably my favorite gun. It is nice and compact, but would still be a pain to carry out in town, say in a backpack. I have been carrying my Glock 17 Gen 5 MOS in a backpack with the Recover 20/20 brace. It is super compact, lightweight, solid construction, accurate and with 3 17rd mags, I feel well armed. The hand piece out front holds an extra mag, for a total of 35rds on tap, and the spare mag in the bag. It takes the pistol to a new level. Hits at 50 yds are easy, and for $99, it is a steal


Size comparison Banshee vs Glock

An FN PS90 SBR'd will give you a very compact package with 50 rounds on tap.

quote:

Originally posted by Wreckless:
An FN PS90 SBR'd will give you a very compact package with 50 rounds on tap.

I agree........but ammo for that gun was expensive before the panic buying and is now even more expensive and not in stock anywhere. If you can’t get ammo, you might as well not have the gun.

quote:

Originally posted by C-Dubs:

From my browsing, it sounds like:

of the two, the better trigger, hands down out of the box favors the Sig.

initial pricing favors the CZ

mag prices favor the CZ

softer shooter favors the Sig

aftermarket add-ons seems like a wash

keep reading of gases/powder to the face when shooting the Sig suppressed

So, I’m hoping to hear some input from the brain trust here concerning their experiences with one or both of them.

I own a SBR'd 8" MPX, and have shot several MPXs and Scorpions owned by friends. The MPX has noticeably less recoil than the Scorpion. It's not like 9mm is heavy, but side by side the difference is obvious.

I've shot my MPX with 3 different suppressors and a half dozen different kinds of ammo. I have no gas blowback issues what so ever. I have several other suppressed rifles and the MPX is really very clean in this aspect.

The CZ mags are cheaper...and that means they are cheaper. They have frequent issues with cracked feed lips. I've never had an MPX mag problem and wouldn't expect to with the steel feed lips. It's up to you if this is worth ~2X the price per mag. For that matter my MPX has never malfunctioned at all despite it being very dirty from running suppressed almost 100% of the time.

The CZ is a fine gun and great bang for your buck. I'm happy I spent a little more and got an MPX instead.

You guys sure don't make it easy

I do like the Banshee, especially in 10mm, but wish the barrel length was in the 4-6" range. Trying to keep the overall length significantly shorter than my AR, which is almost 37". My idea was to have something I could maneuver through my hallways with ease.

The PS90 would be great except the ammo prices.
A bullpup would cut the length down some, but thinking ahead, I do want to suppress it in the future.

I'm still leaning towards the EVO S2. Pricing is more attractive to me, and with Magpul offering 35 round mags, for less than half the cost of the mags for the MPX, that's a big plus too.

Everything is nearly unobtanium currently, so I can only keep thinking about the options for the time being anyway.
For now, the rioting has stopped, but could quickly resume again if when the courts decide to clear the good guys.

quote:

The PS90 would be great except the ammo prices.

i

The price should come down. I am very happy with my FN 5.7. I agree with Q, the AR pistol is the way to go.

I don't understand the original premise. What possible event would require toting an ar room to room? I get maybe a non knock swat team but then it won't matter too much. And since you have a 10mm on your hip what is the possible reason for something less capable to tote? And of course the idea that 9mm has less wall penetration than 5.56 has been studies a zillion times and its simply not true. An AR is the best choice in this crazy world. period. Pistol to cut the size would be my advise, but I'm not you. And if you are carrying a 10mm something that takes the same mag would also be a decent setup, B&T APC10 would be my first choice but the CMMG in 10mm is an alternative. Assuming that's not your thinking we get to your thoughts on 9mm PCC's. Yea I know there others with 5.7 suggestions, but as someone who has lots of 5.7 experience I'd ignore those as the ammo to make a 5.7 a serious contender is really, really hard to get. Something I have a large experience base with. So we end up per your thinking 9mm PCC's. Here are just a few with comments on stuff I have shot enough to know.
The absolute smallest package I think you can get is the B&T APC9K with the sliding brace. Its really really small. You can get glock mag, sig mag, or B&T mag if that matters. Suppressed it really doesn't care.
The CMMG is nice, pretty small when collapsed. I couldn't get a folder to work but OK. I have a number of them and they have been fine. Bigger than the above but with the advantage of being an AR> But when you add a 3lug it grows in length.
The MPX is a very nice package. runs well. Can be quite small when folded. but mags are pricey and you have the issue of when sig says F**** you.
I would never consider an MP5. For the simple reason that reloading one is a nightmare tactically. But the MP5K (and its clones) are pretty short with a folding or sliding stock.
The Evo has a nice aftermarket to fix its initial problems. But you have to test everything to make sure all is ok since some of the changes are not good. Not that I wouldn't be happy with it but that's the facts.
A glock mag AR is a good option. I've not seen too many issues on those and you can like all AR stuff make it whatever you want.
I have many more of these things but that's a brief overview. Between an MPX and the CZ I'd probably get the CZ and spend the money difference on making the CZ what I want exactly.

The thing about all of these 9mm PDW/SBR/SMG/PCC/WTF guns is that at they're heart, they're still pistol caliber guns. A lot of people are playing fantasy games thinking that just because it's bigger than a pistol, it's that much better. Poor ballistic performance is a big part of why SMGs have gone the way of the dodo in most LE tactical teams. Throw in superior ballistic performance at ranges beyond the hallway and the continued development of the AR platform (and research on short barrel ballistics and on and on) and it's not a mystery why MP5's are piled into the corners of armories, cut up or traded in.

If you want something effective to tote around the house, look at making your AR shorter and lighter.

(And I've probably got a half dozen guns that fit the alphabet soup of acronyms above, to include select fire.)

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I don't understand the original premise. What possible event would require toting an ar room to room?.

He lives in Kenosha, WI. Watch the news.

OK I get that since its in the original post. But I've watched way,way too much video footage of these events and I have yet to see one where its a 'sneak' attach on an individual residence. Not a one. Where one would not have time to move to another room in your house and grab some gear. You know like armor (which is not discussed), your AR, etc. etc. So if you have some video of that kind of event I'd like to see it. And what you need to grab is an AR in 5.56 or bigger as I said above, but that's a different angle on this. Would love to see some documented circumstances where in room rifle carry would actually makes a difference.

To answer your question, I'd skip the SIG (hurts to say that...) and get the CZ micro + a suppressor. You'd be around the same price as just the SIG depending on what suppressor you get, and you'd be able to use it in your house without destroying your hearing like you would with a shotgun or AR pistol (unless you plan on having ear pro with you in the house...which is a viable, reasonable option).

My two cents.

I know that I consider amplified ear pro a major plus in my response to go investigate events. I put a pair on the gun and when investigating stuff its a huge advantage. Why anyone wouldn't I can't fathom. The suppressor situation is a tradeoff of additional length to some advantages for those around you.

Before all the SHTF, I always felt more than secure carrying an SP-101 with .38SPL+P around town... then fan met shit, and I switched over to a Glock 29SF with a spare mag and my AR was brought out of the safe, a weapon-mounted light was added, and my Aimpoint PRO was switched on. Also keep some pepper spray near the front and rear doors now.

The National Guard and US Marshal’s Service helped to quell the violence in a few days while we were under an emergency curfew from 7pm-7am for about 9 consecutive days.

But, during that time, I realized that toting my AR back and forth from my bedroom to the living room each day just wasn’t that fun. That spurred the idea of something more portable, that if needed, could be used indoors to get me back to a long gun in my bedroom.

I predict more rioting in our future when the dust settles from their investigations and the good guys are cleared.

So, long story short, that’s the premise behind this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I know that I consider amplified ear pro a major plus in my response to go investigate events. I put a pair on the gun and when investigating stuff its a huge advantage. Why anyone wouldn't I can't fathom. The suppressor situation is a tradeoff of additional length to some advantages for those around you.

Amplified ear pro is the key. I have passive ear pro but those are for range. Around the house, amplified ear pro with fresh batteries is a good option if you don’t want to go the suppressed route. Plus, it’s highly unlikely bad guy has a suppressor, so even if you have one, there’s potentially at least one loud gun in play. I would really, really prefer to not have to touch off a shotgun or AR indoors without some sort of hearing protection.

However, as you say, there are others in my house who may not have the time or luxury of gearing up with ear pro before loud noises occur. With that in mind, I’m choosing the suppressed route for my situation. I’ll gladly take the extra work to accommodate a longer weapon and added muzzle weight for the advantage of a perpetually quieter option in/around the house.

556 will punch less walls than 9mm. Fact, full stop plenty of data on it. It is also a far better stopper. Also fact with data on it. I'd go with an 11.5 or higher AR pistol or other 556 pistol and quality rounds if you can get your hands on them currently. I'd throw on some ear pro and if you can do amplified ear pro even better.

I'd also work to camo my place by cutting all political stickers, lawn post ups and signs including on your cars, make it sterile and unnoticeable if possible. If trouble comes your way I suggest not being home if you can but if you cant I'd stay inside. I wouldnt go out and challenge the crowd at your driveway or something.

If you just want a fun 9mm carbine/pistol I'd go with a CZ Scorpion. It can HD in a pinch just fine but it is not an AR which if I was worried about what you are worried about would be what I'd be running. If someone had a disablilty or strength issue or no training it might be a bit better for them to run the 9mm but again I'd run a carbine / 556 pistol for the serious stuff.