This is unrelated to the safety issue, but note how they declined to save $700K of taxpayer money:

At the time, the cost for the FNS-40 pistols, which are manufactured in Fredericksburg, Va., was about $1 million. That contract could have been as low as $300,000 if the county had agreed to trade in its old weapons. But the county declined in order to prevent the guns from eventually entering the open market.

Complete article:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/n...-20181210-story.html

Baltimore County spending $1.4M to replace police department guns that could accidentally misfire or fail

by Pamela Wood Contact Reporter
The Baltimore Sun
Dec 10, 2018

Baltimore County is spending more than $1.4 million to replace pistols used by county police that may have a tendency to accidentally misfire — or not fire at all.

The county awarded a no-bid contract to replace more than 2,000 FNS-40 pistols used by its police officers, sheriff’s deputies and correctional officers with weapons made by Glock.

The move came after mounting concerns about the pistols’ safety.

“The department understands that officers lost confidence in carrying this service weapon, so there was an immediate need to explore a new service weapon that our officers will have confidence carrying,” said Cpl. Shawn Vinson, a spokesman for the police department.

Baltimore County’s firing range instructors learned in August from the Arizona Department of Public Safety that the FNS-40 could fire accidentally.

Baltimore County initially worked with the gun’s manufacturer, FN America, a subsidiary of the Belgian company Fabrique Nationale Herstal, to replace a faulty striker pin in the guns in September.

But county officers had another problem with some of the FNS-40 pistols: a roll pin inside the trigger could fall out, causing the trigger to separate from the gun and rendering it unable to fire. The department has logged at least three guns with this problem in the past two years.

Meanwhile, an officer was injured in September when the officer’s gun accidentally fired during a classroom training session. Two years ago, an officer accidentally shot himself during training, when he pulled a gun from his holster and was preparing to shoot at a target. He suffered minor injuries.

In another incident in 2016, a gun accidentally fired in the Pikesville precinct station while in an officer’s holster. No one was injured.

Officials with FN America did not respond to a request for comment Monday. The company previously issued a service bulletin warning that some of its pistols could delay in firing after pulling the trigger under certain — but “unlikely” — conditions. The company offered to fix affected guns.

Vinson said it became clear this fall the department and its officers wanted to move to a different model of gun.

“At that point, the department made the decision to explore a new service weapon,” Vinson said.

In a memo to budget officials, county police Chief Terrence B. Sheridan wrote: “The current duty pistol has shown that a catastrophic failure could occur. Should this failure happen the officers of the [county police force] may not be able to protect the citizens of Baltimore County or themselves in an emergency.”

A team tested out various types of police pistols from Glock, Sig Sauer and Smith & Wesson, settling on a Glock 17 Gen5, a 9-mm pistol that’s popular among police agencies, Vinson said.

The county entered into an emergency contract — bypassing normal procurement rules — with Atlantic Tactical, a Pennsylvania company, to purchase the new guns.

The contract, awarded last month, has been sent to members of the Baltimore County Council for review. County rules require that the council be notified of all no-bid contracts worth more than $25,000.

The total purchase will be $1,443,773.85, which includes 2,065 guns as well as holsters, magazines, magazine pouches, gun lights, “dummy” guns used for training and other accessories.

Patrol officers are glad to be getting new guns, said Cole Weston, president of Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 4.

“There have been a couple of incidents that have caused concern about the reliability and the appropriate function of the weapon, and that prompted the department to look at replacing the weapon,” Weston said. “I think the officers in the field would feel more comfortable with a different weapon that they would have confidence in.”

Baltimore County law enforcement will join Baltimore City police officers, Howard County police officers, Maryland State Police troopers and sheriff’s deputies in Carroll County and Harford County in carrying Glock-made pistols. Anne Arundel County police officers carry a gun manufactured by Sig Sauer.

Baltimore County’s officers previously carried Sig Sauers, which were ditched in favor of the FNS-40 pistols in 2013. The FNS-40 is a semi-automatic pistol that fires .40-caliber bullets, which are slightly larger than 9mm rounds.

At the time, the cost for the FNS-40 pistols, which are manufactured in Fredericksburg, Va., was about $1 million. That contract could have been as low as $300,000 if the county had agreed to trade in its old weapons. But the county declined in order to prevent the guns from eventually entering the open market.

The FNS-40 pistols will be sold to Glock, according to Vinson. It’s not yet clear how much money the county will recoup from the sale.


pwood@baltsun.com

I didn't know anyone seriously used FN handguns.

I mean, their rifles are great. Machine guns, even better.

Pistols? Their last big hit was the BHP in 9MM, IMO.

^^ I didn't either. If nothing else, I'd be tempted to argue that a department that really wanted that setup would be as well served with SIG's P2022s.

quote:

That contract could have been as low as $300,000 if the county had agreed to trade in its old weapons. But the county declined in order to prevent the guns from eventually entering the open market.

The FNS-40 pistols will be sold to Glock, according to Vinson. It’s not yet clear how much money the county will recoup from the sale.

Yeah, and it's not clear what Glock is going to do with the used pistols, either. Would I be crazy to think that Glock saw buying the pistols as being purely a loss leader to get the contract?

I actually really like the 509 and the FNS. I didn't realize they were having issues.

Last time we changed duty weapons we sent all of our old ones to Sig who then sold them in one batch to a distributor. We had a very limited period where we could purchase the weapon back from Sig before they were gone.

Glock will all but give firearms to Departments to get them to switch over. I'm not knocking Glock at all. In fact, I find them to be excellent service weapons. It is the economics, however, more than the quality that has led to Glock dominance of the market. Glock has low production costs which allows them to keep their per unit price very low, especially when offset by things like maintenance agreements and trade ins.

Why did they even go with the F/N guns , no one uses them . Who ever it was that would not sell the old guns and chose this F/N junk should be let go . Any thing about MD , NJ , NY is a joke anymore .

quote:

Originally posted by triaxle:
Why did they even go with the F/N guns , no one uses them . Who ever it was that would not sell the old guns and chose this F/N junk should be let go . Any thing about MD , NJ , NY is a joke anymore .

AZ DPS adopted SIG as their first semi auto pistol back in the mid 1980s. The choice followed months of different pistol manufacturers testing by the armory and multiple officers. It was unusual as most AZ agencies were using GLOCK and the SIG cost was greater than what GLOCK would have cost. The issued was a choice of P220/45 or P226/9. A couple of decades later they adopted the P229/40. Few issues with any SIG platform that were not operator caused. All worked well in multiple OIS.

In 2015 the Governor chose a new Director and Asst. Director from outside the agency. The latter apparently liked the FN and directed that manufacturer be the new service weapon. I'm not sure if the FN got anywhere near the testing as did SIG. It happens more often than not that a lounge lizard makes a poor choice. In this case, the lesser cost to replace aging SIG service weapons may have played a role during budget crunches.

I'm quite certain that the FN pistols will be fixed but the confidence 'damage' has been done. SIG pistols worked for years. A lot of officers probably have doubts about the FN choice in the first place.

Oh, I am sure the Baltimore County taxpayers don't mind ponying-up the $700K, in a totally above board no-bid emergency contract , to keep the FNS-40's off the street.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Oh, I am sure the Baltimore County taxpayers don't mind ponying-up the $700K, in a totally above board no-bid emergency contract , to keep the FNS-40's off the street.

It was the Sigs (later replaced by the FNS-40s) that Bal County blew $700K by not trading them in. But - sound the trumpets - THAT KEPT THEM OFF THE STREET! And reduced gun violence! And saved the children!

/rant mode off/

The defective FNS-40s are being sold to Glock, the article did not show a price.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Oh, I am sure the Baltimore County taxpayers don't mind ponying-up the $700K, in a totally above board no-bid emergency contract , to keep the FNS-40's off the street.

It was the Sigs (later replaced by the FNS-40s) that Bal County blew $700K by not trading them in. But - sound the trumpets - THAT KEPT THEM OFF THE STREET! And reduced gun violence! And saved the children!

/rant mode off/

The defective FNS-40s are being sold to Glock, the article did not show a price.

Sigh. Yep. "Off the street..." as if they were going to hand them out to children instead of sell them to lawful citizens through FFLs. We all know who runs the city of Baltimore.

Maybe the county figured that if the triggers don't work, then it doesn't matter if the FNs make it onto the street?

If a publicly traded company made the decision to take a hit like that a group of investors would file a lawsuit the next morning.

Wouldn't you want crappy defective guns on the streets? Then the criminals will shoot themselves or have a gun that doesn't shoot at all.

Baltimore County, couldn’t happen to a better state government and tax base.

Pay up bitches!

Sure the county is screwed up, nice money tree out back, where did the original Sig's go - and did they even need to be replaced in the first place?

But seriously how do you make a gun the doesn't fire or misfires and falls apart? It's not like it's some new technology. What do they have monkeys building these things.

quote:

Originally posted by 2012BOSS302:
But seriously how do you make a gun the doesn't fire or misfires and falls apart? It's not like it's some new technology. What do they have monkeys building these things.

My guess is all the solid people at FN work in the long gun line.

The FN handguns assembly line is for the retards, mercy hires, or those PITA employees who are hell on HR and just too hard to fire.

Basically, it's an apprentice program for Century Arms.

I love me some FN rifles, but damn they make it hard to even like one of their modern handguns. They had that one a couple of years ago that would malfunction when hot, so if you shot it a lot or let it sit in the sun, it was a piece of trash. Maybe it was a desire for northern LE departments, like the North pole or something? IDK.

Can't say I've ever heard of the roll pin working it's way out of the trigger. Possible? Sure. But on at least 3? I'm a cynic, so I'd put forth the theory that a couple guys made their pins come out to raise a stink. As for the NDs, switching guns isn't gonna help stupid.

Just like the other thread about dropping the P320, I suspect enough people wanted a change and did what they could to force the issue. Obviously Glocks aren't a bad choice, just the whole thing, going back to the switch to FNs to begin with, is a huge waste of taxpayer money. My only hope is they did it with seized asset moneies.

All in all, it has no effect on my life whatsoever.

It's not surprising about the FN pistols. All kinds of FNS's and FNX's, etc available in this area on the local gun trader. Forget the model # but the ones in 5.7 hold their value very well. Sad thing is cops in Baltimore (and elsewhere) really do need to be armed with something reliable!

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
I didn't know anyone seriously used FN handguns.

I mean, their rifles are great. Machine guns, even better.

Pistols? Their last big hit was the BHP in 9MM, IMO.

I know FN early on announced a contract for the 509 with Brink's Security. It's been 'crickets' after that.

Looking on Wikipedia, it seems like only a small handful of departments use/used the FNS worldwide. The one I found interesting: FN's USA manufacturing hometown is Columbia, SC. The city's PD once carried the FNS-9 but they dumped them in 2012. Back then the FNS was still a fairly new design, only about a year or so old. Geez, when you can't even get your 'hometown' department to use your pistol...

I recall that Bruce Gray spoke very poorly of FN's polymer handguns a few years ago.

I searched, but the thread's old enough that it has been pruned.

They've been through a series of reliability issues, including a notable problem in the early 2010s with their polymer going abnormally soft when warm, including after being exposed to the sun, which rendered the pistols unable to fire.

It's probably for the best that they're moving to something else.