quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:
I think many people aren't understanding these are basically single-action pistols. The trigger on these striker-fired SIGs are fully-tensioned (much like the HK VP9, Walther PPQ, etc) which helps them have a great trigger pull, but without an external safety of some kind, carrying them is analogous to a 1911 in Condition 1 but with the grip safety defeated and the thumb safety off. HK and Walther add a trigger blade safety, SIG now offers a thumb safety.

Some just aren't comfortable without an external safety of some kind. Ultimately it is 1) preference, and 2) training.

Actually, they are nothing at all like single action pistols like the 1911.

nope

A quality kydex holster is all the safety I require when carrying a striker fired pistol. When it leaves the holster the 4 rules are always observed.

Not a fan of safeties - My M9 Beretta with it's sweep up safety was always in my n9ight stand and safety on in the early SD days - I had it down - Then I was in a USPSA Match and "BEEP" - It is amazing how shit goes out the window when a little panic sets in. I went to the "G" conversion that next week. I swap my SD preference all the time - I want it to always be aim and pull the trigger. 1911's Whatever - Have to deal with it.

Are people switching to manual safeties? I sure hope not! In fact, Sig never should have came out with a manual safety version. Put in a holster, the gun won’t go off all by itself ever. Get some training.

Why not? If they're fully cocked, they are by definition SAO. They don't have a hammer, but for safety purposes, that's not particularly relevant. In point of fact, the 1911 design, with it's grip safety, is likely safer cocked and unlocked than one of these striker guns.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:
I think many people aren't understanding these are basically single-action pistols. The trigger on these striker-fired SIGs are fully-tensioned (much like the HK VP9, Walther PPQ, etc) which helps them have a great trigger pull, but without an external safety of some kind, carrying them is analogous to a 1911 in Condition 1 but with the grip safety defeated and the thumb safety off. HK and Walther add a trigger blade safety, SIG now offers a thumb safety.

Some just aren't comfortable without an external safety of some kind. Ultimately it is 1) preference, and 2) training.

Actually, they are nothing at all like single action pistols like the 1911.

Nope

No way Hosea.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Why not? If they're fully cocked, they are by definition SAO. They don't have a hammer, but for safety purposes, that's not particularly relevant. In point of fact, the 1911 design, with it's grip safety, is likely safer cocked and unlocked than one of these striker guns.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:
I think many people aren't understanding these are basically single-action pistols. The trigger on these striker-fired SIGs are fully-tensioned (much like the HK VP9, Walther PPQ, etc) which helps them have a great trigger pull, but without an external safety of some kind, carrying them is analogous to a 1911 in Condition 1 but with the grip safety defeated and the thumb safety off. HK and Walther add a trigger blade safety, SIG now offers a thumb safety.

Some just aren't comfortable without an external safety of some kind. Ultimately it is 1) preference, and 2) training.

Actually, they are nothing at all like single action pistols like the 1911.

No, they absolutely nothing like a 1911, especially as the op suggested with the grip safety defeated and safety off.

quote:

Are people making the switch from the 365 to the 365 MS?

No idea why that would be necessary.

Most people who HAVE TO have a MS wouldn't carry an non-MS version, so they likely didn't by the non-MS version.

But Why Does SIG offer a MS version? Because it will make them more $$$$, because some people HAVE TO HAVE ONE.

So is the P365 action similar to Glock action, 1.5 action so to speak?

I have a couple of P365s and still bought a MS version. I don't believe the P365 in its' original iteration needs a MS, nor do I believe having a MS on the P365 in any way adversely affects the gun. I'm happy that Sig offers a number of variations on so many of their guns.

quote:

Originally posted by saigonsmuggler:
So is the P365 action similar to Glock action, 1.5 action so to speak?

My understanding of the P365 trigger mechanism is that the P365's trigger only releases an already fully-tensioned striker, which is different from the Glock design.

quote:

But Why Does SIG offer a MS version? Because it will make them more $$$$, because some people HAVE TO HAVE ONE.

Nailed it. They make it because there exists a market for it. And I'm not hating on anybody who gets a safety version; in the same way I don't give a damn if somebody doesn't like my non-safety version.

If a manual safety is what makes you carry a dependable accurate high capacity sub-compact pistol - as opposed to leaving it at home because your 1911 (or whatever) is too big or too heavy (or whatever) - then by all means, getchu a P365MS.

I'm all for getting more guns into the hands of good guys, as opposed to having philosophical discussions over which version is better, safer, more reliable, etc.

Buy the best gun you can afford that works for you, that you can and will carry, that you can operate and shoot well. End of story. Stop worrying about what the internet says, or what makes you popular at the range, or being in the cool-guy club.

If a manual safety 365 is that gun, buy one. Hell, buy two!

The analogy is directly applicable. If the 1911 has a passive firing pin block, a striker gun without a manual safety would be, from a safety standpoint exactly like a 1911 unlocked with the grip safety defeated. If you don't agree, what's your reason?

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Why not? If they're fully cocked, they are by definition SAO. They don't have a hammer, but for safety purposes, that's not particularly relevant. In point of fact, the 1911 design, with it's grip safety, is likely safer cocked and unlocked than one of these striker guns.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:
I think many people aren't understanding these are basically single-action pistols. The trigger on these striker-fired SIGs are fully-tensioned (much like the HK VP9, Walther PPQ, etc) which helps them have a great trigger pull, but without an external safety of some kind, carrying them is analogous to a 1911 in Condition 1 but with the grip safety defeated and the thumb safety off. HK and Walther add a trigger blade safety, SIG now offers a thumb safety.

Some just aren't comfortable without an external safety of some kind. Ultimately it is 1) preference, and 2) training.

Actually, they are nothing at all like single action pistols like the 1911.

No, they absolutely nothing like a 1911, especially as the op suggested with the grip safety defeated and safety off.

quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:
My understanding of the P365 trigger mechanism is that the P365's trigger only releases an already fully-tensioned striker, which is different from the Glock design.

The Glock could be thought of as being "half cocked" in that the striker is drawn farther to the rear prior to release. The P365 (and P320) can be thought of as cocked, but unlocked, or "fully cocked," which accounts for the excellent trigger pull.

It's not, as others noted, a 1911, but the comparison is apt.

Just picked mine up yesterday - very happy with it and pleased that it came in the older-style partitioned box. The safety is a little stiff but I like it that whey. This MS version gives folks an option we didn't have before; you can either use the safety or ignore it. I'll be using it. Fortunately, we live in an area where our minute-by-minute survival does not depend on the nanosecond it would take to flick the safety off. If I lived in a location that what that dangerous (that is, I had to be able to deploy and fire within 500-ms) I would initiate the change of zip code process.

I will be, as soon as funds become available. I'm debating on purchasing a P365XL now, or waiting to see if they come out with a manual safety model of that firearm as well.

quote:

Originally posted by GeoJelly:
If I lived in a location that what that dangerous (that is, I had to be able to deploy and fire within 500-ms) I would initiate the change of zip code process.

Logic failure. Crime happens everywhere. The hood, the slums, the suburbs, and even where the rich millionaires live.

quote:

Originally posted by dehughes:
I think many people aren't understanding these are basically single-action pistols. ... carrying them is analogous to a 1911 in Condition 1 but with the grip safety defeated and the thumb safety off.

I don't know about the P365, but neither my P320 nor my PPS M2 are in the ball park. Nor was the PPQ M2 with an RDR I tried at a local range a couple months ago. Even my G34 race gun, with its lightened, tuned trigger isn't as light, "creep"-free and crisp as either one of my 1911's.