$549 buys a guy two Holosun 507Ks. It buys four Romeo Zeros.

Any new design will look odd because it’s something people are not accustomed to seeing. The RMR type sight looked strange when people first started putting them on handguns, and they don’t now because they are so common. Remember that Glocks looked ugly and strange when they were introduced as well. (Okay, they still look ugly, but they no longer look strange.)

Regarding the price, the ACRO is even more expensive, and yet people are buying it. Not everyone looks at such things purely from the price standpoint. Lest we forget, some people buy things because they’re expensive.

If this sight becomes a popular success, expect imitators of the design to proliferate. On the other hand, if enough reviewers concentrate on, “Ew, ewwww! It’s so ugly!” and, “I wouldn’t be caught dead being seen at a range with that thing; what would my friends think‽” that may kill it and we’ll be stuck with huge growths on the tops of our slides forever.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Pass.

I think the tiny window is going to negate much of the benefit of an optical sight and make the dot challenging to acquire with proper threat focus. It's also going to be harder to conceal.

Ya, not so good for us AIWA.

I'd like to try one myself. Aging eyes have made iron sight shooting a bit more difficult as of late. I don't have any red dot handguns so this would be entirely a new thing for me. The $500+ price tag makes a bit expensive for a buy and try kinda thing, but is cheaper than having one of my guns milled for a traditional RMR and then purchasing an additional red dot.

I’d like to try one some day. I don’t really care about looks so even though it is somewhat homely IMO, I’d still consider it if it worked well.

I do think it would mess with my current mechanics in that I’d be subconsciously trying to use it as a sight ( intentionally aiming/looking through it to find dot- like a scope) as opposed to focusing on target as with my current RDS. If that turns out not to be an issue, I’d consider one.

Whatever you do, if you want one don’t order it from Optics Planet. They have it listed for $399 but that doesn’t mean they have. They have a habit of advertising things, getting sales, and then ordering from the manufacturer.

Anyone know if the Smith & Wesson M&P Model will work on an M&P Shield or just the bigger framed guns?

Can’t find any mention on Leupold’s website.

It’s just that different I’d like to give it a try but not going to buy another gun to do so. I happen to have a shield just sitting around.

The M&P model does not look as goofy from the side to me as the Glock model because of the angled battery compartment.

The thing that kills this for me is the “it’s only for one gun” nonsense. I get it from a technical standpoint but as a consumer I like to be able to move them around. My RMR has been on multiple guns until it found a permanent home. The Glock one is well, a Glock one so it would always have a home but some other guns not so much.

I reached out to Leupold and these will fit the Shield line.

My high level thoughts (no real particular order):

DP Micro: ($400)
+ Don't need to buy new slide
+ Don't need to buy slide parts kit
+ Only need front sight ($70); allows for standard irons
? Use slide dovetail; bolt to dovetail adapter
? Smaller window - forces good presentation; may or may not be practically limiting. Or may be faster with good presentation.
+ Possibly more robust / reliable design
+ Don't need to remove to change battery; can change while engaged.
- Need to remove to detail disassemble slide (every 4000 rounds?)


RMR: ($470)
- Need to buy new slide (don't want to mill my stock slide) ($250-400)
- Need to buy slide parts kit ($100)
- Need to buy front/rear sights ($120)
+ Direct bolt to frame + recoil ridge
? Larger window - still requires good presentation but may be more forgiving.
? Need to remove to change battery - bad unless you proactively change battery (ie - to avoid battery failure when you need to use). Annually?
+ Can detail disassemble slide

I'm attracted to the cheaper cost of the DP Micro path ($500 vs $1000), use of factory slide, use of standard sights (more choices), ghost ring backup, ease of battery change. Some concerns about functionality of tunnel vs window.

If you never ever swap optics than you might save money. An RMR fits on any gun with an RMR cut.

Making this one gun only is very limiting. I understand that’s where the engineering forced this but it’s still limiting. Not a big deal to Glock guys and perhaps the MP guys. If you need a specific one for a 365, a different one for Sig P series, one for CZ, one for blah blah blah. This is a one trick, one gun pony. I drop 4 bills on a DPP or RMR I know that in a couple years I can put it on something else. This ain't that.

It is a bit off putting. I don’t think this will do great. I also think smaller and smaller windows make for slower and slower presentations. I’m not particularly fast though so maybe I’m wrong. We shall see. I do think you will need a near perfect presentation for this to be fast.

I don’t have an RMR on a pistol so excuse the dumb question.

If I take my RMR off my Glock 20 and put it on my Glock 17 does the RMR need to be resighted in??

Also for the folks saying the window is so tiny and perfect presentation is needed.
The 3 videos I have watched with people shooting it were pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to find the dot.
While it is a learning curve the RMRs have one too.

Is it really that much different than using a ghost ring sight or even a peep sight?

I’ll admit I am intrigued and I’ll likely grab one for my M&P Shield.
Does that mean I’ll like it? We’ll just have to wait and see. I have been intrigued by a lot only to be disappointed but also there are plenty of things that intrigued me and am glad they did.

Also, I have never bought a sight to use on different guns so the one sight, one gun does not really bother me.

Too bad this is the only optical handgun sight on the market. Perhaps another company will come out with something capable of being mounted on more than one make/model of gun so there will be other choices.



The problem I see with wanting one sight to fit several significantly different guns is that it’s clearly designed to be a close mate to the slide. Move the position of the rear sight even slightly or change the shape of the rear of the slide and what fits one gun is either not going to fit another at all or will require the lower rear of the sight to extend much farther back with a larger gap between it and rear of the slide. I have only P320s and a (dummy) Glock to compare, but the positions of their rear sights are different, and the shape of the rear of the slides is as well. People are already complaining about how ugly the sight looks; how much worse would it be if there had to be a 1/4 inch gap between the sight and the rear of the slide with one gun so that it would fit another?

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
If you never ever swap optics than you might save money. An RMR fits on any gun with an RMR cut.

Making this one gun only is very limiting. I understand that’s where the engineering forced this but it’s still limiting. Not a big deal to Glock guys and perhaps the MP guys. If you need a specific one for a 365, a different one for Sig P series, one for CZ, one for blah blah blah. This is a one trick, one gun pony. I drop 4 bills on a DPP or RMR I know that in a couple years I can put it on something else. This ain't that.

It is a bit off putting. I don’t think this will do great. I also think smaller and smaller windows make for slower and slower presentations. I’m not particularly fast though so maybe I’m wrong. We shall see. I do think you will need a near perfect presentation for this to be fast.

I only have glocks.....

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
I don’t have an RMR on a pistol so excuse the dumb question.

If I take my RMR off my Glock 20 and put it on my Glock 17 does the RMR need to be resighted in??

Also for the folks saying the window is so tiny and perfect presentation is needed.
The 3 videos I have watched with people shooting it were pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to find the dot.
While it is a learning curve the RMRs have one too.

Is it really that much different than using a ghost ring sight or even a peep sight?

I’ll admit I am intrigued and I’ll likely grab one for my M&P Shield.
Does that mean I’ll like it? We’ll just have to wait and see. I have been intrigued by a lot only to be disappointed but also there are plenty of things that intrigued me and am glad they did.

Also, I have never bought a sight to use on different guns so the one sight, one gun does not really bother me.

I'm not an expert and RMR is new to me. But here's my initial experience. YMMV.

My understanding is that if you remove the RMR (ie - to change the battery) and re-install on the same gun, you will need to re-zero. But I would guess that it would not be too far off. Even out of the box, it was still pretty effective POI for POA (at least in my case). Would definitely expect to re-zero between 17 and 20; BTW, are the irons different heights between 20 and 17? I think it is between 20 and 19.....

Presentation for straight on shooting is pretty quick and easy. What's biting me are transitions - targets straight ahead and upper / lower corners (ie think about transitions shooting on 1F and hitting targets on 1F and 2F while sweeping left to right). Single target straight ahead - not so bad. Transitions between targets right / left and up /down - been a little more challenging for me. We'll see if it improves now that I've installed irons as well (additional subconscious reference point?).

RMR is not a ring, so..... Still, it seems my front post is about centered in the window - may be good enough (similar to AR with front sight and RDS tube as ghost ring).

For me, the RMR was costly (almost $1000 to add to an existing 19). I'm attracted to the cost of the DP Micro.

Well not many people shoot an aperture or peep sight on their handguns so I don’t really get your point. Bigger windows mean you pick up the dot faster or with a sloppier presentation. There’s just no arguing about that. As for videos of guys shooting fast that really doesn’t tell me much. There are a lot of fast guys with unlimited ammo and amazing talent. And there’s guys who shoot fast on video and if you saw their target the best you could say is, they shot fast. Until it gets in the hands of lots of shooters it’s just a guess but I think this will be a tougher sight to shoot fast. And yes options are great but if the option ain’t that great who cares. I shoot a lot more than Glocks and shields (mp’s). Buying a gun specific sight is a dumb fucking idea. There, I said it. My prediction, this is a flop. If I’m wrong you guys can lord it over me. I appreciate that out of box thinking but gun specific, apparently striker only, tiny window, high price. Nope. Just my guess. I’ll will try someone else’s though and if I’m wrong I will admit it. But I doubt I will have to.

quote:

Well not many people shoot an aperture or peep sight on their handguns so I don’t really get your point.

Point is a lot of folks do it with rifles and shotguns that are not necessarily as easy to manipulate to get on target as a handgun.

I certainly don’t think this is an end all that will cause the RMR to go away by any means but I am pretty sure it is not as a terrible idea as you are making it out to be.
Fitting for everyone certainly not, will it be adopted to the extent of the RMR pretty much a guaranteed no. But having more options on the market is not really a bad thing any way you look at it.
Again, I have never bought a sight be it red dot, irons, scope, anything to be used on multiple guns and I am going to guess that I am not alone. So the one sight one gun concept may be pretty fitting for some folks.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Well not many people shoot an aperture or peep sight on their handguns so I don’t really get your point.

Point is a lot of folks do it with rifles and shotguns that are not necessarily as easy to manipulate to get on target as a handgun.

A aperture a few inches from your eye is significantly easier to utilize than an aperture at arm's length.

Hence why they're commonly seen on long guns, where they can be positioned nearer to the eye, yet very rarely seen on handguns.

Yep. Kind of apples and oranges. I love peeps on rifles, on handguns it’s a gimmick. A bad gimmick.

Make no doubt I want to play with one of these. I’m just not excited enough to use my money on something I doubt will be great. We shall see.

This seems like a powered version of Sigs SAS style fiber optic sight. That didn’t exactly light up the airwaves either.

quote:

This seems like a powered version of Sigs SAS style fiber optic sight

Not quite IMO. The Meprolight design's biggest problem is that it completely obscures the point-of-aim and blocks any view of a front sight if it's still remains mounted to the gun (since it's no longer needed). The Leupold sight is essentially a circle-dot RDS that can act as a peep in double duty if its power fails. You can still see your POA even if its portal is kinda small; but that's why you shoot with both eyes open anyways.

Meprolight has sold that FT Bullseye sight for several years now; I had the misfortune to buy and mount one on one of my G19s. I think all SIG did was have Meprolight scale down the sight a bit for use on the SAS, though it does look narrow enough to fit on a 365 slide without any overhanging on the sides. Or Meprolight gave SIG one hell of a great proposal and deal to convince them that the P365 would be THE perfect-o platform for this stupid system. It uses a combination of fiber optic and tritium to get that green glow in virtually all ambient light conditions. I've posted earlier edited versions of these before under my old soggy_spinout screenname, but those edit appeared to have been nuked or lost from whatever pic hosting service I stored them one at the time.





Same pics taken and posted a few years ago, just recropped and reedited for size. That sight's rear view is pretty much how it looks on the P365 SAS. This is one sight that if it doesn't really matter if your sight is obscuring so much of the view of your target, then you're probably close enough that it doesn't even matter if you're sighting with any sights at all. At least that's been my take on this sighting system.