In this age of being able to check things out on line first, is it possible to ‘have faith’ in something based on history?

I recently purchased a West German P-225, and so far have not tested it at the range. Despite that, it has been my “daily carry” pretty much since I got it!

Why??? Because I trust West German Sigs with all my being! My trust is based on experience, and experience tells me a West German SIG with minimal wear will work.. every single time!

So, am I an idiot for trusting it, or not???

Question:
1. Do I trust an unfired W. German SIG?
2. Or don’t I?

Choices:
Yes
No
Are you insane???

 

Carry or not, how do you not hustle down to the range to try out a new (to you) West German SIG? Those things can be an absolute buzz to shoot!

You are not an idiot. You are no more of a risk taker than an unarmed person.

Well your odds are pretty good that it will function just fine but I sure wouldn't rely on it until its proven.

The older p6/225 did have the feed ramp angle issue that would cause feeding issues with some hollow point ammo.

You really need to test the gun, ammo and mags before relying on it.

Guess if nothing else you could throw it at your subject to defend yourself.

Have some fun and get to the range and enjoy that sweet P225.

If its new to me, regardless of make or model and I dont know it history, then 250 rounds down the tube before I carry it.
If it comes from a trusted friend who tells me its good to go, then 150 rounds.

While the West German SIGs are well made, reliable, accurate, and safe...and they are...they don't walk on water.

There are a number of things that can, and sometimes do, go wrong with them.

I consider it foolish and irresponsible to carry any gun for defensive purposes, without first performing an armorer's function check, and then verifying reliable operation with whatever carry ammo I choose, verify magazine operation, verify sight alignment and POA/ POI.

But it doesn't affect me in the least as to what risks you choose to take so do as you please.

quote:

Originally posted by Mustang-PaPa:
Well your odds are pretty good that it will function just fine but I sure wouldn't rely on it until its proven.

The older p6/225 did have the feed ramp angle issue that would cause feeding issues with some hollow point ammo.

You really need to test the gun, ammo and mags before relying on it.

Guess if nothing else you could throw it at your subject to defend yourself.

Have some fun and get to the range and enjoy that sweet P225.

Agreed. Broken firing pins, broken extractors, broken roll pins, weak magazine springs, sight alignment, POA/POI, which type(s) of ammo reliably feed, chamber, extract, and eject, verifying that the various safety mechanisms operate reliably as designed, verifying that the gun goes into battery after firing a round etc...etc... these are things I need to know before relying on a gun...at least to the extent such test shooting provides for.

If, in a life and death moment, I had no option but to grab your (unknown to me) P225, aim it, and squeeze the trigger then I would do so and would hope for the best possible outcome...but sans that specific scenario, I see no reason to knowingly carry an untested gun with untested magazine(s), and untested ammunition type(s).

If based on your experience, you believe that the probability of failure is acceptably low, then proceed. Each person applies that logic. Keep in mind that anyone carrying has presumed that the untested primers / rounds loaded into their carry mags will fire. Though they may have extremely favorable experience with Federal HST, they must assume that particular chambered round of HST won’t be the rare dud.

Nope. Don't care. To me, for a self defense gun, complete trust has to been earned by direct personal experience with whatever hardware you have now, not by past experience with others, even if they are same brand, no matter how great that past experience is..

I would test it post haste prior to carrying for self defense, especially if I had something else I could carry that has been proven. I guess, for me, the only exception would be if it was my only option. I would still go outta my way at the first chance I got to shoot it.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Nope. Don't care. To me, for a self defense gun, complete trust has to been earned by direct personal experience with whatever hardware you have now, not by past experience with others, even if they are same brand, no matter how great that past experience is..

This.
Parts get worn or broken even in a west German sig, and sights can get knocked out of alignment. I wouldn't carry it without some range time to verify function.

In my opinion (worth exactly what you paid for it) you should fire it to function check it with your chosen SD ammo.

I don’t care who makes it, I wouldn’t carry it until I could verify that it functions reliably with SD ammo and hits where I point. I’ve fired Sigs out of the box with dead centered sights that were outside my comfort zone on group centering.

Do I think it will have an issue? No. I will not carry something I haven't shot however. Beyond mechanical issues you also don't know where it hits. Are the sights true and does it put rounds right where you aim? Ive shot really good guns that functioned flawlessly but needed a rather different sight adjustment. Me? I'd make it to the range most urgently. Remember you aren't just protecting you.

No way I would trust a gun, much less used, without testing. My folks bought a model 10 that was kept loaded near the back door. Once they actually took it to a range it started locking up after two cylinders. Anything semi auto that fires from a closed bolt is more complex than a model 10.

I would rather trust a factory new gun of pretty much any manufacturer before I'd trust a used gun.

Bubba loves to F up guns and then trade them in.

I wouldn't.

You're not a fool for trusting it based on experience, assuming you have run a couple of magazines of carry ammo through it by hand cycling the slide to ensure it feeds and extracts properly, and you have done a pencil function check on the firing pin.

That said, If I had another firearm that I trusted, I would carry it until I found the time to fire the new acquisition.

I understand that it is very unlikely to need a defensive pistol, and it's unlikely that a maintained and function checked SIG will fail to operate properly, but I would still fire it with my carry ammo.

I don't carry any handgun for self defense until I have shot it. I don't care what make of gun. You gave to test your gear.

quote:

You are not an idiot. You are no more of a risk taker than an unarmed person.

I would argue you are more at risk. Unarmed you roll the dice that an attacker or mugger etc. do not see you as a threat and therefore do not ratchet up an attack.

Should you deploy a weapon and have it fail the conflict has been brought to a new level and may force your opponent into a deadly reaction.

As to carrying an untested weapon, nope. Some of the BEST guns I own still needed a good cleaning and a box of ammo through them to smooth them out and give them a little break in.

I am not a “you need to run 5000 rounds of your carry ammo through your gun before it is trustworthy” but I do want to know it will run topped off with a full new mag as well as knowing it will run my carry ammo of choice with 20-50 rounds minimum.

Something as simple as a sight loose in a dovetail may show up when the gun heats up / vibrates a bit.

It is a quality pistol and doubt you would have any issues but good old Mr. Murphy likes to say "hi" at the wrong moments. I would test it out with whatever you plan on carrying just to be sure it feeds the load you want. I have done the same thing you are doing/feel, when I couldn't get to a range but with man made objects, it is better to be safe than sorry.

I have a lot of faith in my Sigs, but If I were to buy a new Sig for carry, I would certainly put a few boxes through it, just to make sure.