quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
Bill, tell me more about the new range. I'll pay a visit next trip down when we visit our granddaughter at UAH.

It is called “Bullet and Barrel”, and is on Leeman Ferry Rd in south Huntsville. They are HUGE, clean, and high-tech (computerized target positioning and retrieval), doors to range stay locked and require the badge issued to you to open them, HUGE storefront with some pretty darned good prices, etc.

They have a 5-star rating according to some shooting magazines.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Trusting a firearm to use for use in defense of one's life, without testing it is beyond foolish. No machine is perfect. Anything is possible. Who needs to be told this??

And yet my testing at home showed the exact results I experienced on the range! Foolishness comes in many forms, but I eliminated all of the normal problems in advance. So be it...

Man, whatever gets you through the night. You can wordsmith this from now 'til the cows come home. You asked the following:

quote:

So, am I an idiot for trusting it, or not???

The phrasing of your question implies the possibility of "idiocy" for your choice, which in itself is telling. Given this, I think my answer was somewhat polite and restrained. That you were even considering trusting your life to an untested firearm is not negated by the fact that said firearm functioned properly when tested.

There are no perfect machines. Anything is possible. The words "West German" do not function as a talisman.

Dude.

I've had a SIG P228 that demonstrated light strikes somewhere between every hundred rounds and every five.

I've had to send a Legion P229 back for a manufacturing defect.

I've had a Gen 4 Glock 19 that was utterly intolerant of anything other than a Viking grip.

I've had a quality AR that liked to blow primers when it got hot because the chamber was a couple thousandths too tight.

A buddy had an M&P that would not, for the life of it, feed hollowpoints.

Test. Your. Gear. For the love of God, man, just go to the range and put a few boxes of ammo through the thing, and a few boxes of your carry load. It'll cost you less than a hundred bucks in range fees, targets, and ammo, and maybe two or three hours of driving, shooting, field strip, clean, lube, re-asssemble, and reload.

You mean to use it if you need to, don't you? Then you should be practicing with it. Conveniently, practicing with it will also test it, if you work in your carry load with the cheap range ammo.

If you're not practicing it, and you haven't bothered to test fire it, are you really carrying a life-saving tool? Or is it just a damn fashion accessory?

It's not hard. But it is necessary.

quote:

<<snip>>
The words "West German" do not function as a talisman.

That is true, but my testing put proper function well into the “positive” box!

No “word-smithing” here, just stating facts.

And for the record, I added the third option just for the fun of it!

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
Bill, tell me more about the new range. I'll pay a visit next trip down when we visit our granddaughter at UAH.

It is called “Bullet and Barrel”, and is on Leeman Ferry Rd in south Huntsville. They are HUGE, clean, and high-tech (computerized target positioning and retrieval), doors to range stay locked and require the badge issued to you to open them, HUGE storefront with some pretty darned good prices, etc.

They have a 5-star rating according to some shooting magazines.

Thanks. I will definitely check it out. May be a fun time for my granddaughter too. She enjoys shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
The pistol has been function-tested by racking full mags of rounds through it, without the slightest hiccup. The gun has been cleaned and lubed, and the firing pin tested with a pencil down the barrel (it launched the pencil well clear of the muzzle). I have zero doubt it will fire at least the chambered round, and practically zero doubt it will continue to do so for the entire magazine. All mags have nice, strong springs and minimal wear, so no doubt about those either.

I'm curious as to why you only bothered to mention these checks after others mentioned these things, and not in your initial post?

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
Regarding the sights... no way in hell they're coming off or moving while firing! They're brand new night sights I installed myself, and the base of both sights had to be honed a good bit to even get them started in the dovetail. They are easily much tighter fitting than the stock sights!

I'm also curious why you failed to mention that you had installed new sights in your initial post?

Care to explain how you determined the proper regulation of the sights, since you hadn't fired the gun to check POA/POI.

One of the P226 (West German mfr.) I own, and am the original owner of, was just removed from its holster to snap these pictures. (Yes, the gun is dirty, it was cleaned last month and needs to be cleaned again).

Note the offset sights, both front and rear. Is Modern Day Savage Cockeyed? Is Modern Day Savage Cross-Eyed? Does Modern Day Savage have a lazy eye? No. When both the factory Von Stavenhagen sights as well as the Trijicon HD sighs are centered in their dovetail slots the gun produces tight groups about 1.5"-2" to the right of target center at 7 yrds. Well, Modern Day Savage must have a glitch in his shooting then right? Well, perhaps that's true, but if it is true the other shooters that shoot this gun must have an identical glitch to my own. Also, it should be noted that my other P226 examples don't require this same sight offset.









bronicabill, as I mentioned previously, what risks you choose to take don't affect me. To paraphrase George Thoroughgood, what you do "don't confront me none".

I'm more concerned with the possibility that some new inexperienced shooter, maybe a forum member and maybe a non-member just searching the internet for information, will come across your post and think that all they need to do is buy a gun, load some ammo in a mag, shove the mag in, and drop that gun in a holster and call it good...thinking that is all that is required to maintain their safety, the safety of their family, and the safety of others who might be in a threat zone during a defensive shooting.

It is irresponsible to lead inexperienced shooters to believe that an untested gun should be relied upon for defensive purposes, unless an imminent life and death situation precluded the ability to first test a gun, its magazines, its ammo, and its sights.

My answer to the original question is no I would not carry or trust an unproven gun....

unless that is all I had on hand.

I was actually watching an old movie the other day and the cop actually did something you hardly ever see in any movie or show.... he was fixing to go into a room with his 1911 and actually checked to see if a round was chambered.... someone had removed all the rounds from his magazine and the chamber.... This was in an early 1930's movie with William Powell: "One Way Passage" from 1932
the only other time I think I've seen it was in the movie 'Heat', both Pacino and DiNiro did this every time they drew their weapon....

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
<<snip>>
I'm curious as to why you only bothered to mention these checks after others mentioned these things, and not in your initial post?

<<snip>>

It was a poll. Do you honestly think I should divulge each and every thing I'd done for my normal cleaning and testing regime just for a poll??? I'm pretty most folks would have stopped reading it by the second paragraph if I'd done so!

Regarding the sights on your Sigs.... I don't have an answer for you, but I can assure you that ALL of my Sigs have their sights perfectly centered in the dovetail, and they ALL put the rounds dead center. Maybe you need to have your guns or your eyes checked...

And finally, regarding the newbie stuff... I tried to read it but all I got was blah, blah, blah. Everyone has their opinion on things (including me), and opinions are like ass holes, they normally stink.

Trust but verify.

If it'll work on Russian Commies, it'll work on anything!

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
<<snip>>
I'm curious as to why you only bothered to mention these checks after others mentioned these things, and not in your initial post?

<<snip>>

quote:

It was a poll. Do you honestly think I should divulge each and every thing I'd done for my normal cleaning and testing regime just for a poll??? I'm pretty most folks would have stopped reading it by the second paragraph if I'd done so!

Yes. If you want to have your poll question evaluated and answered by other shooters then, yes, you should provide all relevant info. There are numerous other examples of poll questions on this forum that are far longer than the space or time it would have taken you to have provided relevant info. It suggests you didn't perform any of these checks until after others mentioned them.

quote:

Regarding the sights on your Sigs.... I don't have an answer for you, but I can assure you that ALL of my Sigs have their sights perfectly centered in the dovetail, and they ALL put the rounds dead center. Maybe you need to have your guns or your eyes checked...

Did you read the part where other shooters experienced the same offset and that my other P226 examples don't require the offset?

quote:

And finally, regarding the newbie stuff... I tried to read it but all I got was blah, blah, blah. Everyone has their opinion on things (including me), and opinions are like ass holes, they normally stink.

So, you have no compunctions about putting out irresponsible info that may be followed by inexperienced shooters?

Look, you could have simply loaded up your P225 and carried it and no one but you would have been the wiser. Instead, after doing so, only then do you pose the question here. That suggests you knew it was a bad idea, had doubts about it, and came here seeking input to alleviate your own doubts.

You rolled the dice, carried an untested gun, with untested mags., and untested sight POA/ POI...and it worked out for you this time. But just because this risky practice didn't bite you this time doesn't make it a good practice...it just means you got away with it.

If I had a dollar for every time I did something that was a bad idea but got away with it a couple times I'd be a wealthy man.

Not just myself, but several experienced shooters pointed out to you exactly why it's a bad idea...but you certainly don't need to listen to us. Do as you please in your own practices, just don't try to pretend that it's a good idea.

That said, I'm glad to hear that you got lucky and your P225, the mags, the ammo, and the POA/ POI worked to your satisfaction.

I wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

One should ALWAYS thoroughly test their firearm, mag, ammo combo before carrying for self defense.

That being said, if I was making an online purchase sight unseen, I would have a higher degree of confidence in German mfg. and the very early German/US made SIGs vs. what is very loosely considered a "SIG" by today's standards. I have avoided the purchase of these new SIGs when available locally and of the entire line, I 'might' consider purchasing a P210A ONLY if I had the chance to visually inspect it first hand. I would never consider the purchase of a new US made SIG online without the ability to personally inspect it. OTOH, I have no compunction in purchasing Swiss SIGs, German SIGs, Glocks, FNs, HKs, etc. online as I trust their engineering and QC.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bronicabill:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
<<snip>>
I'm curious as to why you only bothered to mention these checks after others mentioned these things, and not in your initial post?

<<snip>>

quote:

<<snip>>
It suggests you didn't perform any of these checks until after others mentioned them.

<<snip>>

So, you’re calling me a liar?!? Fuck you and the horse you rode in on!!!

Regarding all the other bullshit you alleged, I will not waste my time responding. You have proven what an idiot you are, and further response from me is ludicrous!

Terrific. Great job, bill. This thread is a real peach.

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