I did find an older thread on the subject but being a few years old figured I'd start another one.

I'm familiar with handguns but never owned a long gun other than a few inherited 22LR rifles and a few pump shotguns.

I first thought I wanted my first 556 AR, looks like that will be my next purchase.
Decided on a 9mm PCC since I have so much of it, and I mostly shoot at an indoor range that requires a suppressor for 556 (they'll rent you one).
There are some outdoor ranges close to me; I'll go to them when I buy the 556.

This gun will be for HD and range plinking, not so much for distance.
Don't think I need a 16" barrel for this gun since I want a suppressor for it.

I'd like to keep the price to $1K to $1.5K.
I considered CZ SCORPION EVO 3 S1: Semi-Automatic Carbine and Kuna Pistols - Springfield Armory (among others), but I'd like to stay with a more AR-like platform.
In my obsessive over-researching, I think I've decided on a Springfield Saint Victor in 9MM with either a 5.5 or 8.5-inch barrel.

SAINT® Victor 5.5" 9mm Pisto

Springfield Armory® Announces Launch of the SAINT® Victor 8.5" 9mm Pistol

Questions;
1. Any input or advice on the SAINT or a different similar 9MM PCC?
2. I'll eventually want a suppressor for it; I can't decide if I want the 5.5 or 8.5 barrel.
3. Suppressor recommendations for this pistol, be nice if I could use it on my G21 45ACP and other 9MM pistols as well.
4. Any adapters I'll need for the suppressor for the PCC.

I've been to the local shops and learned a lot from them, but they seem to push what they have in stock.
I'm headed to a gun show this weekend, and will probably purchase if I can find what I want cheaper than buying on the internet (plus shipping and transfer fees).

I found cheaper 9MM PCC choices, some that would take my Glock 17 mags, but I'm learning to look for something decent that I won't end up replacing a lot of parts on.

Thank you for any input.

Just an FYI, BCM is getting ready to release/announce a 9mm AR pattern PCC.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/7190054705

Granted, it’s a two year old thread, but this is the route I took. I dumped my Scorpion late last year. In 2026, it doesn’t even make my list of recommendations, and given the problems with it CZ refuses to address, I recommend against it.

All that said, my next PCC will be a CMMG RDB upper on an AR9 lower of some kind. They just suppress the best outside of the MP5 types.

There are a lot of threads on different PCCs in the Rifle Room forum, so you may want to check there. I’ve got about 15 9mm PCCs, but only a couple are AR9 types (DD PCC and CMMG MkGs Banshee). I’m generally not big on AR9 types as they are usually straight blowback without any delay system, so they normally have a heavy bolt. That usually results in a bit more recoil and more gas to the face. But they are usually the most reliable. I don’t have any experience with the Saint, but have a couple of Scorpions (CZ and Nexus), Kuna, Stribog SP9A3, and others

The Scorpion is fine, it’s also direct blowback and has a ton of aftermarket for it. It’s still viable in 2026, although I’d get a roller delay like a Kuna or Stribog, or a radial delay CMMG over a Scorpion today, especially for running suppressed.

For suppressors, I’d recommend a low backpressure can with 3-lug. The CAT MOB was my favorite for a while, but the OCL Milkman is my new fav for the shorter length. I also like the Rugged Sub9. It’s cheaper that the MOB and Milkman, and comes with Rugged’s excellent Bixler-style 3-lug adapter, which is much better than the standard spring loaded adapter. But, those are large cans meant for PCCs. If you want a can to also use on standard pistols, I’d go with something like a Mojave 9.

You may also want to consider the magazines in your decision. I think the Saint takes Colt SMG style mags. Other guns take Glock mags, but the hotness right now is Magpul Scorpion mags for price, capacity, and reliability.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dwill104,

$1000-1500 will get you a very nice AR-15. If I had neither an AR-15 nor a 9mm PCC, I'd get an AR first. If you want something smallish, get a 5.56mm AR-15 in 10.5-11.5" barrel length. If you want smaller in 7.5-10.5" range, get on in .300BLK.

If your range & ammo circumstances have you convinced on a 9mm PCC, then consider the Extar EP9 Gen 3, which is supposed to be released around Aug-Sept. It has roller-delayed blowback and starts at $569.

Might want to look at the Ruger PCC in 9mm. I bought one a while ago and it accepts my 9mm silencer.

It's a good shooter and very accurate with iron sights. Think I paid less than $600 for it!

Thank you all for the input.
The more I read and watch videos about the Saint, the less inclined I am to choose it.

Starting to lean towards the KUNA.

Thank you P220 Smudge for the link.
I didn't see that thread in my search.

An AR will be my next purchse after the PCC.

I've a 9-gun list, so far, to take to the gun show Saturday.

Had a Springfield saint. Loved it. Great trigger, mags easy to get/cheap.
Problem was no suppressor will fit under the hand guard. Too far forward. Would need to replace hand guard to use can.

Sold it and bought a DD PCC 8 inch. Needs a trigger. Handle well. Cheap mags. Lots of gas when suppressed.

quote:

Originally posted by mike56:
Had a Springfield saint. Loved it. Great trigger, mags easy to get/cheap.
Problem was no suppressor will fit under the hand guard. Too far forward. Would need to replace hand guard to use can.

Sold it and bought a DD PCC 8 inch. Needs a trigger. Handle well. Cheap mags. Lots of gas when suppressed.

This is the exact reason why I'm not so interested in the Saint.
Love the gun, the look, the trigger, etc.
But from what I read, I'd need to replace the handguard or use adapters for a suppressor.

Daniel Defense is on my list to check out this weekend.
I like the KUNA; it seems to be one of the only ones that reliably feeds hollow points.
Really like the Century AP5-SD Pistol, but its on the high end of my budget..

I'm trying to decide: go budget on the first gun of a platform, or go balls out and get what I want.

I have a Scorpion 3+ and I love it. I have added a few aftermarket parts and it just runs. I've had zero problems with it, but with the added parts it does not fit into your budget.

I also have a Saint Victor (223/556) that I also have added some aftermarket parts to and it is a great shooter. I will say it's a bit heavy though.

Take into consideration I live in California so what we have available here is alot different than other free states.

I do like the Kuna, but not available here.

quote:

Originally posted by 1lowlife:

quote:

Originally posted by mike56:
Had a Springfield saint. Loved it. Great trigger, mags easy to get/cheap.
Problem was no suppressor will fit under the hand guard. Too far forward. Would need to replace hand guard to use can.

Sold it and bought a DD PCC 8 inch. Needs a trigger. Handle well. Cheap mags. Lots of gas when suppressed.

This is the exact reason why I'm not so interested in the Saint.
Love the gun, the look, the trigger, etc.
But from what I read, I'd need to replace the handguard or use adapters for a suppressor.

Daniel Defense is on my list to check out this weekend.
I like the KUNA; it seems to be one of the only ones that reliably feeds hollow points.
Really like the Century AP5-SD Pistol, but its on the high end of my budget..

I'm trying to decide: go budget on the first gun of a platform, or go balls out and get what I want.

If your budget is $1.5K, the DD PCC is probably going to be over. Think you’d have a tough time for finding one that low, and that’s before adding in sales tax and any other costs. As others have said, it needs a better trigger, plus it is gassy when suppressed. To be fair, it is nicely built, has AR controls, and takes Scorpion mags, which is a plus, but it’s a bit overpriced for a undelayed blowback gun IMHO and has a proprietary length charging handle, so you can’t substitute a better gas buster type CH. I have a DD PCC and ended up replacing the trigger, safety, grip, and stock, all which added to the cost. Also, I only run it with a low backpressure suppressor.

For your price range, the Kuna is a good choice. It doesn’t need much aftermarket, not that there is a lot anyway. All I added was the HBI reduced weight safety spring and short stroke buffer, both which are pretty cheap. And the factory stock.

Check out the CMMG Zeroed Banshee. They continue to upgrade their product. Uses Glock magazines if that is a plus for you. https://cmmg.com/zeroed-banshee

I was wrong about the Saint barrel threads being recessed under the handguard.
They extend beyond the handguard.



Now the drama is between the Kuna and the Saint at the top of the list.
But I will check all of these out at the gun show Saturday.

The list so far;
Kuna, so far at the top in the running
Saint Victor 8.5 actually got to handle one today at a shop.
Century AP5, or some kind of AP5
Scorpion 3, seems many don't like the position of the safety
Ruger PC Charger, probably too ugly for me.
PSA AR-V
PSA AK-V
Sig MPX, way out of my price range, but if I found a great deal I'd consider it.
CMMG Banshee

I'm going to be a contrarian. I've a lot of 9mm PCC's. But I think if you are starting with one just get an AR9 as close to milspec (colt spec) as possible. And if you don't have a real 5.56 AR then doubly just start with an AR9.
Run a std. lower and not one of the PCC mag lowers. Use either the endo mags or the Hahn block.
Then at that point its easy to just get an upper in another (5.56) caliber and the modularity of the system makes perfect sense.
The 9mm AR uppers are very reliable, yes they recoil a bit more but the difference is not meaningful and parts are everywhere and modest in price. I don't trust any of the others in that way, I've waited for CZ parts for a year,
The CMMG RDB upper is quite good but will not fit in your budget but that would be my first choice.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
I'm going to be a contrarian. I've a lot of 9mm PCC's. But I think if you are starting with one just get an AR9 as close to milspec (colt spec) as possible. And if you don't have a real 5.56 AR then doubly just start with an AR9.
Run a std. lower and not one of the PCC mag lowers. Use either the endo mags or the Hahn block.
Then at that point its easy to just get an upper in another (5.56) caliber and the modularity of the system makes perfect sense.
The 9mm AR uppers are very reliable, yes they recoil a bit more but the difference is not meaningful and parts are everywhere and modest in price. I don't trust any of the others in that way, I've waited for CZ parts for a year,
The CMMG RDB upper is quite good but will not fit in your budget but that would be my first choice.

Thank you, Sir.
I'm leaning into the 'buy once, cry once' way of thinking and just going for it.
If that delays my suppressor purchase, so be it.

As much as I'd like to think the latest suppressor news will stand, I doubt the gov't will go down without a fight.
I'm pretty sure there will be an appeal on the 12th.
But who knows?

There's gonna be a mad run on suppressors if there is no appeal.
Kinda makes me want to go ahead and buy one with the free stamp and wait a few days..

No thoughts about the Stribog? TBH, I like my SP9A3 a little better than my Kuna.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
No thoughts about the Stribog? TBH, I like my SP9A3 a little better than my Kuna.

It's been added to the list; I've never seen or handled one.
Does the SP9A3 get fouled, or does the action gunk up after several rounds?
Saw that in a couple of videos.

Thank you for the input.

quote:

Originally posted by 1lowlife:

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
No thoughts about the Stribog? TBH, I like my SP9A3 a little better than my Kuna.

It's been added to the list; I've never seen or handled one.
Does the SP9A3 get fouled, or does the action gunk up after several rounds?
Saw that in a couple of videos.

Thank you for the input.

Not in my experience, and in fact I’ve never heard of that being a problem. I haven’t noticed any abnormal fouling after shooting. Most of the earlier issues have been pretty much eliminated with the latest generation of polymer curved mags and the availability of different locking pieces.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:

quote:

Originally posted by 1lowlife:

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
No thoughts about the Stribog? TBH, I like my SP9A3 a little better than my Kuna.

It's been added to the list; I've never seen or handled one.
Does the SP9A3 get fouled, or does the action gunk up after several rounds?
Saw that in a couple of videos.

Thank you for the input.

Not in my experience, and in fact I’ve never heard of that being a problem. I haven’t noticed any abnormal fouling after shooting. Most of the earlier issues have been pretty much eliminated with the latest generation of polymer curved mags and the availability of different locking pieces.

Thank you again.
I just watched a few videos, and they seemed great.
It may have been the earlier versions that had issues.

Got to the show at 10:30, had all three handguns sold to private sellers in 30 minutes.
One bought the 2 Glocks, another bought the Sig for a total of $1400.
I could have gotten more selling to individuals, but the time it takes to show them, deal with the tire-kicking lowballers, check ID's, and stand there in everyone's way, I was glad to sell them and be done with it.

Anyway, I searched the show for a Stribog and didn't see one.
I handled the KUNA as I've done before, and something just seemed off about it for me.
I handled the 9MM Saint and liked it, but my next purchase will be a 556 AR that I will build myself.
Almost bought a complete PSA 9MM lower and complete 9MM Bear Creek upper for half of what I ended up paying today.
But again, I'll build my own AR in the near future.
Now that I'm home, I would have overpaid for both the upper and lower by about $100 each over buying them online.

Finally, the last row I found 2 Stribogs, a SP9A1 (I want an SP9A3), and a SP45A3.
Handled the 45 and really liked the feel of it.
I contemplated the 45 for a few minutes, being I have a lot of it, but decided against it.
I want a 9mm suppressor to use with a couple of my 9MM handguns, although I'll need threaded barrels for them.
I asked that dealer if he could get the SP9A3, and he told me to call the shop.

I left after walking the floor probably 10 times today; I need the exercise.
I sat in the truck and called my 3 closest gun shops for their prices on the SP9A3.
The closest local shop (where I usually shoot) was $1299, Superior Outfitters, which is a big box store, was $1259, and the gun store that I talked to at the show was $1199; all of these prices were with the brace.
I went to that shop, ordered it, and paid cash for it.
I even had money left over to go towards my upcoming suppressor I'll be ordering next week.

So this is what I ended up with.
Looking forward to getting it in my hands and to the range.
Just ordered the short stroke buffer..

STRIBOG SP9 A3