quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I think the basic subject of this thread was really small revolvers, basically J-Frames. Other than the barrel length, there's nothing remotely small about the gun you posted. It's not something that can carry anywhere a J-frame could be carried. I think for purposes of this discussion, any gun alternatives need to be at least somewhat carry equivalent to a J-frame.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
my LGS has a Smith Performance Center 327 in stock, it's been there at least a year if not more, at $1300 ...

Opinons vary,

Due to my size I can put that 327 in my front pocket and you'd never know it was there.

So for myself and those of us with large frame bodies, larger frame revolvers fit us just as easily as a J frame.

As to J frames, I've owned both, gave a daughter the J Frame and carried the LCR in 38 for a year, it was a good carry, but too small for my hands.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
^^ That depends on the purpose of the 5-shot. Plenty of people are buying large-caliber non-snubbies because they're light enough to carry easily in non-urban areas.

I carry a charter target bulldog 44 sp. in a crossdraw holster when fishing in AK. With a 4” barrel, adjustable sights it weighs under a pound & a half, and runs @ 400 bucks. My bear loads are no fun to shoot, but it’s nice to have handy. Also have put a few ptarmigan in the camp pot with shot loads. Also carry it in n fl scouting with snake loads.
Revolvers will always be around as some love them, but thd selection of new ones will surely diminish.

It is certainly not dead in my house. After 25+ years in law enforcement, to include working in major cities and being involved in national security work, I am in no way wearing blinders as to the the level of threat that exists on the streets. That being said, it is not uncommon to find me carrying a Ruger SP101 and two speed strips. I feel quite sufficiently protected for most day-to-day activities.

This one isn’t dead yet...been in my pocket most of this winter

I believe the 5 shot J frame still has a place. It's not my primary but I do carry it if I feel the need for a backup (not often). I keep it in a Ritchie ankle holster when it's in that role. It's too big for me to pocket carry in jeans but I will occasionally drop it in the pocket of the Carhart for short trips.

truth be told: A 5-shot model 60 with Pachmayr Compaqs in a Milt summer special is my primary carry, and I'm fine with that. An extra 5 in a speedloader and another 6 in a speedstip for 16 rounds total carry.

You've got to go with what you have confidence in, and I've built up over 25 years of confidence in this setup.

Yes, I've tried others, but have always gone back to the model 60. But I've got to admit the P239 in a Kramer IWB had a lot of carry too, and is a close 2nd.

I'm not an LEO, and my strategy is to shoot so I can run away. Yes, I'm aware this doesn't always work out, but such as it is.

I think the question, a year and a half on from the OP, and which I brought up back then, is not are there people who like 5-shot snubbies, becasue they plainly have their fans (who are well represented here.) The question is, how well are they selling for the manufacturers, and are the sales enough to keep them in the line-ups. So far the answer seems to be yes. But I have to wonder what the sales trends are.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I think the question, a year and a half on from the OP, and which I brought up back then, is not are there people who like 5-shot snubbies, becasue they plainly have their fans (who are well represented here.) The question is, how well are they selling for the manufacturers, and are the sales enough to keep them in the line-ups. So far the answer seems to be yes. But I have to wonder what the sales trends are.

Well, one more indicator might be the price of .38 SP ammo compared to, say, 9mm ammo. I'm seeing less and less selection of .38 SP and it's always like 50% higher in price for comparable brands. Wasn't that way some years ago. I recall when .38 SP was the cheapest thing around, in like 1990.

People in the forums forget that not everyone who owns or wants a firearm is a "gun person", nor do the want to be.

Many just want a reliable and not crazy expensive firearm that is 'easy' to operate from a certain point of view (like easy to load, unload, and you just pull the trigger).

Obviously lots us understand that a revolver can require a lot more to use effectively, but then again there are tons of people out there with semi-autos that barely know how to use them as well.

To me the 5-shot J-frame shines for pocket carry in cargo shorts and ankle carry. It's odd size and non-linear shape helps conceal it even when a cool semi-auto wins the tale of the measuring tape. And the hammerless j-frame draws a lot smoother from a pocket with no chance of getting hung up on the back of the slide.

For those reasons the two I have will soldier on unglamorously stuffed in a pocket or clanking around in an ankle holster as a BUG to an IWB Glock.

When it comes to sales trends, S&W, Ruger and now Kimber seem to be making them with no end in sight - hell S&W has about 25 different flavors of 5 shot J-frames.

^^^Well said^^^

My wife has little inclination to spend enough time to be proficient and comfortable with the "complexities" of a semi-auto. Her Airweight gets the nod, and it's a helluva lot better gun than no gun. I expect there's plenty of other folks of the same mind, at least enough to keep the manufacturers interested in cranking them out.

I have a 642 because revolvers are still viable, especially as an ankle gun. I do prefer all steel guns...just too darn expensive.

I think this is a function of production vs consumption. There is a vast amount of 9mm production worldwide, given 9mm''s near universal military use, and large share ithe LE market. A good chunk of the excess of this goes to the US civilian market. That keeps prices down (absent the occasional market panic.) The market for .38 Spl is thinner. It still gets some LE use but a tiny fraction of what it was in its heyday. I don't know if it gets much, if any military use, maybe outside of military LE (and even that's probably going away). So the government overrun supply isn't there. The ammo companies make what they think the retail market will buy, and price it for low volume retail buyers (meaning higher than it would charge high volume government buyers.)

I think that expansion the price difference, and why .38 used to be relatively cheaper.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I think the question, a year and a half on from the OP, and which I brought up back then, is not are there people who like 5-shot snubbies, becasue they plainly have their fans (who are well represented here.) The question is, how well are they selling for the manufacturers, and are the sales enough to keep them in the line-ups. So far the answer seems to be yes. But I have to wonder what the sales trends are.

Well, one more indicator might be the price of .38 SP ammo compared to, say, 9mm ammo. I'm seeing less and less selection of .38 SP and it's always like 50% higher in price for comparable brands. Wasn't that way some years ago. I recall when .38 SP was the cheapest thing around, in like 1990.

I don't think they are on life support, or perhaps even in the nursing home yet. Definitely in a retirement community though!

Revolvers are just size and capacity inefficient. For a given amount of rifled barrel length (say 1 7/8th snub vs. 3" auto), the auto will be smaller in every dimension and have 2 more rounds capacity. So its revolver +1 for reliability and auto +1 for size and +1 again for capacity.

I like them though and wouldn't hesitate to CCW one.

The local gunstore I most frequent doesn't carry any new revolvers, just consignments and trade ins.
A bigger store in a nearby town carries the full line of rugers and smiths, plus the kimbers. Prices on the new ones are pretty high, which I think sends some folks off to buy a shield or some other relatively low priced polymer gun.
I like revolvers myself, and I keep a few in my small arsenal.
This is another one of my favorites.....

This thread is about 5 shot revolvers, but could be about revolvers in general. They have a loyal following, and often from shooters who also love autos. I love both. There’s something nostalgic, romantic and classic about a revolver. I hate plastic guns. No matter how cheap or efficient they are. I slept with a cocked s&w mod 15 for a year as an advisor in Vietnam. It was like a divorce when I had to turn it in. .
“As any car freak will tell you, the old models are the most beautiful, even if they aren't the most efficient. People who sacrifice beauty for efficiency get what they deserve.”
― Tom Robbins

"J" frames are not dead in our house.

I think the non-gun people are buying autos way more than revolvers. I think the biggest revolver enthusiasts are the people who came up shooting with them (and I'm sure we'll now hear from the young guy who likes revolvers.)

Also, getting back to the 5-shot snubby theme, J-Frame-ish revolvers are not great for new shooters. Bigger revolvers may be. But the small ones, especially in .38 are not easy or pleasant to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
People in the forums forget that not everyone who owns or wants a firearm is a "gun person", nor do the want to be.

Many just want a reliable and not crazy expensive firearm that is 'easy' to operate from a certain point of view (like easy to load, unload, and you just pull the trigger).

Obviously lots us understand that a revolver can require a lot more to use effectively, but then again there are tons of people out there with semi-autos that barely know how to use them as well.

To me the 5-shot J-frame shines for pocket carry in cargo shorts and ankle carry. It's odd size and non-linear shape helps conceal it even when a cool semi-auto wins the tale of the measuring tape. And the hammerless j-frame draws a lot smoother from a pocket with no chance of getting hung up on the back of the slide.

For those reasons the two I have will soldier on unglamorously stuffed in a pocket or clanking around in an ankle holster as a BUG to an IWB Glock.

When it comes to sales trends, S&W, Ruger and now Kimber seem to be making them with no end in sight - hell S&W has about 25 different flavors of 5 shot J-frames.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BBMW,

quote:

I think this is a function of production vs consumption. There is a vast amount of 9mm production worldwide, given 9mm''s near universal military use, and large share ithe LE market. A good chunk of the excess of this goes to the US civilian market. That keeps prices down (absent the occasional market panic.) The market for .38 Spl is thinner.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that we're seeing a lot more development of 9mm ammunition and a lot more options in the premium defensive ammunition market for 9mm than is the case with the .38 Special. If I'm correct, then I'd see that as evidence that the ammunition companies see the .38 Special as being a slowly dying niche in the market, and one that appeals to a not-particularly-demanding set of consumers.

I'm probably an oddball, but I'm a younger guy (33) who really likes revolvers. My last two gun purchases have been revolvers, and I have a couple of five shot variants that I like very much. They offer more concealability and power than comparably-sized semi-auto, with their only drawback being capacity.

The thing about revolvers is that most revolver guys are traditionalist who prefer older guns to the new ones. How many times have you heard that the old S&Ws are preferable to the new ones, or complaints that the new Colt Cobra will never measure up to the old ones? I'm not saying these claims are unfounded (in fact, I agree with them), but one can see how this would be a very difficult segment for companies to bring new products into.

The two major innnovators I see in the small revolver market right now are Ruger with the LCR (and LCRx) series, and Kimber with the K6S. The Ruger is a huge departure from tradition in that it's plastic or alloy framed, but it's definitely innovative. The ones I've hadled have really impressed me with their light weight and trigger pull, but I don't own one yet just because I have a hard time accepting the idea of a plastic revolver.

Kimber has gone the opposite direction by making a REALLY nice revolver from traditional materials to fine tolerances. To me it has the mechanical appeal of a classic wheelgun, with innovation in all the right places (squeezing in a 6th round and putting sights on the gun that are vastly superior to the post and groove you get on most small revolvers). Now that they have an exposed hammer version, I'll probably end up buying one.

I think that of my last six fire arm purchases, it has a break down of four revolvers and two semi-automatics. I don’t know if that means anything or not.