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Don't be me kids...inspect used stuff before you buy it. UPDATE: My Gun Shop is Awesome! Login/Join 
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
posted
Lately I’ve been working on finding an alternate to ankle carry for my on-duty BUG (https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/4730036684). I put together a kydex holster for my S&W J-frame that fits inside my front vest carrier pocket, which works really well, except the hammer on my 360 snags the inside of the pocket on the draw. Easy enough solution…buy a hammerless J-Frame, right? I mean, who doesn't like an excuse to buy a new gun?

I did some shopping around this week, and found a few options, the best of which was a nice 642-1 Ladysmith with no lock. I went back to the shop today and it was still there, so I bought it. I figured I’d just add a nice set of rubber boot grips and it would be perfect for my needs. Unfortunately, I was in a rush because my family was waiting in the car, and clearly I didn’t look it over well enough. I just checked the lockup, made sure everything rotated freely, and plopped it on the counter.



I got it out to the range this afternoon, but again didn’t have a bunch of time and didn’t do my usual clean and inspect routine with a new gun prior to going. At the range, the thing was grouping like crap, and consistently to the right…a full 4-6 inches right at 10 yards. I tried the same loads in my 360 with no problems, and even swapped over the grips from the 360 to make sure it wasn’t that…no change. I went home frustrated, thinking that I’d give it a good cleaning and go back tomorrow and try some different loads and bullet weights, hoping to maybe find something that it liked.

I got it home and started cleaning, and the first thing I noticed was this weird bump on the muzzle crown, just below the front sight at around 1:00 O’clock. It’s barely visible, so I’d missed it at the shop, but you can feel it. It’s not a gouge or scratch…it actually sticks out from the front of the muzzle like a pimple. I have no idea what would cause something like that, but I figured that it might be enough of an anomaly to be causing the gun to shoot to the right, so I figured maybe the thing needs a re-crown. Annoying, but not the end of the world.



]

Then I found this. I have no idea how I missed this at the shop, but there it is…the frame is cracked all the way through under the barrel. I don’t know if it was mostly closed up and expanded when I shot it, or if it was already split like this and I just missed it. But there’s no way anything I shot through it today caused this…it was just powderpuff .38 special reloads (I’ve shot hundreds of them through my 360 and other guns with no problems) and 5 rounds of Winchester PDX1 +P. None of the rounds fired felt particularly hot or out of the norm compared to the others.



So now I’m stuck with a busted gun. I guess I should be grateful it didn’t blow up in my hand, and it’s a clear lesson to look used stuff over a lot better before I buy (or shoot it). It was a consignment gun, so I doubt the shop will be willing to take it back. I’m planning to call them Monday, and if they won’t, I guess I’ll give S&W a call and see if they can help me. Not sure if they will since I am not the original owner, and they’re in no way obligated, but it doesn’t hurt to ask. I should have just left well enough alone and kept using the 360, snaggy hammer and all. Not the best day ever. Frown

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 92fstech,
 
Posts: 5043 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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That sucks Frown




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 21539 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Take that broke ass POS back and get a refund. They sold you a bad gun, tell them if it blows up in your face you will sue the shit out of them. They will not want that hassle over a $300 gun.


Always the pall bearer, never the corpse.
 
Posts: 443 | Location: Illinois | Registered: December 03, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
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Is the front sight bent, or that's just an optical illusion?


Q






 
Posts: 21900 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
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Oh, wow. That's painful to see. Really sorry this happened to you, but glad that you weren't injured.

I can see both sides on this. Obviously the gun store that sold you the used gun should be wary of customers who try to return a gun after possibly abusing it... but on the other hand they should recognize that they could be the ones that sold a customer a broken unsafe gun, without catching the failure during a pre-buy inspection.

May be worth a polite level-headed conversation with the store manager...maybe they have a good relationship with S&W and perhaps there is some middle ground on a solution.
 
Posts: 6137 | Location: the Centennial state | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
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quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Is the front sight bent, or that's just an optical illusion?


I noticed that too and was about to dismiss it as an optical illusion, BUT in the last picture, just to the right of the frame crack, the flat on the underside of the barrel appears to have an edge that extends ever so slightly below the frame surface, and the opposite (left) side of the flat appears to extend by the same displaced distance above the cracked frame flat, which suggests to me that the barrel is slightly torqued off-center.

I'm wondering if the barrel was over or under torqued during assembly...or possibly the barrel was removed/ torqued after it left the factory...OR, conversely, perhaps the frame cracked first and allowed the barrel to twist afterwards.

 
Posts: 6137 | Location: the Centennial state | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Agree on the bad barrel install. I think thats what cracked the frame.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 12632 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
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quote:
May be worth a polite level-headed conversation with the store manager...maybe they have a good relationship with S&W and perhaps there is some middle ground on a solution.


That's my plan. I don't blame the shop...I missed it, can't fault them for doing the same. Honestly, I can't even blame the guy who put it up for consignment, unless he knew about it and put it up for sale with the intent of dumping it on someone else. But good luck proving that. Also, who knows how much he even shot it...it was really clean, and it's not like these tend to be high round-count guns. It probably spent most of its life up until now in a nightstand.

It's even possible it didn't crack until I shot it...although I still say nothing I put through it SHOULD have caused that...and I doubt it because it was shooting to the right from the first round. Ultimately I should have inspected it closer, and done better research (although admittedly, it is easier to find information about a problem AFTER you know about the problem...you don't know what you don't know).

From the research I've done tonight, it appears there were a batch of these that left the factory with overtorqued barrels. I haven't been able to find a definite serial number range, but there's at least internet consensus that it happened. So it's entirely possible this gun hasn't been right since day one. On the upside, I'm reading really good things about S&W CS taking care of people, so maybe all is not lost.
 
Posts: 5043 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had co-workers who abused S&W snubs that were not +P rated and I saw a couple fail. When they did, the top strap cracked or let go. I dont think I have ever seen one that failed in the area that yours has. Thats what leads me to think its a faulty barrel install.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 12632 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
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Well, here's hoping S&W reaches the same conclusion, otherwise I'm out $450 Frown.
 
Posts: 5043 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ah, man - here’s hoping this can be made right for you one way or another.



"The sea was angry that day, my friends - like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli." - George Costanza
 
Posts: 6131 | Registered: September 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Its seems like buying used of anything means inheriting someone else's problems instead of simply buying a nice item that someone simply doesn't want.
 
Posts: 163 | Location: Florida | Registered: March 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
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quote:
Originally posted by 92fstech:
Well, here's hoping S&W reaches the same conclusion, otherwise I'm out $450 Frown.


Sorry man, I hope they take good care of you.



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 18695 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by TheQuestionGuy:
Its seems like buying used of anything means inheriting someone else's problems instead of simply buying a nice item that someone simply doesn't want.

Not necessarily.

Do some people offload their broken or defective stuff on the unwary? Clearly so. Others of us have integrity.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 21539 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
teacher of history
Picture of maxwayne
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I would have no problem at all taking that back to where I bought it.
 
Posts: 5145 | Registered: March 04, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Damn, that sucks man. Hopefully, it works out with trying to get a resolution. I was talking to a buddy about buying and selling homes and he was getting really anal about some of the trim being just a touch off. I told him about me moving in and totally missing a bunch of issues. It's really obvious once you own it but it somehow isn't when you are looking with buyers' eyes. Its a thing.
 
Posts: 2613 | Location: Pnw | Registered: March 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by TheQuestionGuy:
Its seems like buying used of anything means inheriting someone else's problems instead of simply buying a nice item that someone simply doesn't want.

Not necessarily.

Do some people offload their broken or defective stuff on the unwary? Clearly so. Others of us have integrity.


Exactly.
I would be upset at myself for not inspecting the gun (or any other used item) before buying it. I'd also be upset at the store for selling something that defective, especially without putting a tag on it or the salesperson saying "Uuhhh... Take a better look at that gun."

I'm pretty sure that the gun store looked at it and said "I'll give you $20 for it" when they bought the gun. I'm going to say that there's almost no way in hell that the owner/agent for the store handed over good cash for that without looking at the gun first.

At least the OP knows what he's doing. Imagine if it was a new shooter with no experience, and this was their self defense weapons...


_____________________________________________________________________

"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 6877 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by p08:
Take that broke ass POS back and get a refund. They sold you a bad gun, tell them if it blows up in your face you will sue the shit out of them. They will not want that hassle over a $300 gun.


Most any decent shop would, but not all. A local pawn shop used to have a sign saying "No refunds. You buy them the way we do". He would tell you flat out if it's broke, don't bring it back crying.

On a side note, I sold a revolver to a guy once in the local trading paper. He brought it back the same day and demanded his money back because it was cracked. The "crack" was the line around the sideplate. I gave him his money back and figured I was doing society a favor by not selling an idiot a handgun.
 
Posts: 824 | Location: WV | Registered: May 30, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
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quote:
On a side note, I sold a revolver to a guy once in the local trading paper. He brought it back the same day and demanded his money back because it was cracked. The "crack" was the line around the sideplate. I gave him his money back and figured I was doing society a favor by not selling an idiot a handgun.


Lol, thanks for that...it made me laugh and I needed that! Big Grin.

quote:
It's really obvious once you own it but it somehow isn't when you are looking with buyers' eyes. Its a thing.


Yeah, it's definitely a thing. It's happened to me with cars before. This is the first time with a gun. I'm not a picky person...I don't let cosmetic stuff bother me because I plan to carry and shoot these things, and if there's already a blemish, at least I don't have to feel so bad about making the next one. But an unrepairable frame crack that renders the gun useless or dangerous is something I should have caught. I did look it over...just apparently in the wrong places.
 
Posts: 5043 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well... The grips look nice!


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 12632 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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