I read about 10 pages of search results, all sorts of opinions, some sounded like experience-based and some standard internet responses. After reading them all I still gotta ask.

1. RMR is the standard right? For ruggedness, battery life also? Comparable the the Aimpoint T series as far as its place in the RDS world?

2. Are the internet posts about the DPP being somewhat fragile true or just repeated old news?

3. Which do you have and are you happy with it?

This will go on a P320 Carry. Wont be carried though, probably wind up as my camper/truck gun when we’re out enjoying nature. It’s cut for RMR, DPP, and Romeo. I like the footprint of the 507K but it won’t fit, and the 507C looks HUGE!

Weird but related. Do you have a 19?

I don’t, only Glock is a 48 the wife wanted but sits in the safe unfired.

RMR is still the benchmark for pistol optics, the Holosuns are quickly catching up. The aimpoint Acro P2 and Steiner pistol optic are solid closed emitter options.

I’ve been carrying an SRO on a p320 concealed and at work for about three years and have not had any issues. Uses the RMR footprint but larger window.

quote:

Originally posted by 4ftty4:
RMR is still the benchmark for pistol optics, the Holosuns are quickly catching up. The aimpoint Acro P2 and Steiner pistol optic are solid closed emitter options.

I’ve been carrying an SRO on a p320 concealed and at work for about three years and have not had any issues. Uses the RMR footprint but larger window.

I like my Holosun 510 on my PCC, and would entertain the 507K, but dang if the 507C, which would fit without an adapter plate, doesn’t at least appear too damn big!

RMR is the Benchmark for certain. Leupold’s down fall is it’s battery life but for your use would not be a huge deal. Is your slide already milled? I think the 320s/Romeo optics share the DPP footprint but I could be wrong. Here is a really good comparison.


I opted for the RMR because rumors are swirling that we’ll be going to RDS next year and they will most certainly be RM06s.
Mine arrived Monday just need to get my slide milled.

I took advantage of the Grey Ghost sale, already milled for RMR, DPP, or Romeo. Price was right.

I shoulda grabbed that FDE RMR from aimsurplus when they had them in stock for 459$.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
I took advantage of the Grey Ghost sale, already milled for RMR, DPP, or Romeo. Price was right.

I shoulda grabbed that FDE RMR from aimsurplus when they had them in stock for 459$.

That one pictured is the cooler anodized Coyote brown. Supposedly based off some SOCOM contract or something. Whooodlyooooo!!!!
I just prefer the anodized color to the black and Cerakote FDE.

It’s the “standard” in the same way Colts used to be the bar upon which you judged AR’s. Like Colt though the market has overtaken that idea. Still a great sight but not necessarily the best choice unequivocally. Holosun for example have gotten really good and in the sub compact market I would prefer a 507k to the RMRcc. And save money. It’s kind of crazy.

As for Leupold DPP. I’ve never broke mine but I hate it. I had an original DP and it was a POS. The Pro is a huge improvement and still sucks. Nobody wants to adjust the brightness by pushing a recessed button inside the body of the sight that literally goes up, up, up then down, down, down. For fucks sake it needs an up and down button. For play the DPP is fine. I would never use it for real just on the brightness controls alone. It also is thicker than its competitors for some reason. Everything is getting thin and the DPP is anything but thin. Run away from this option.

Of course one's personal experience colors their perspective. I got into mounting an RMR on pistols the first minute I could get my hands on one. I've carried one on me personally since first available over several iterations. I've shot tens and tens of thousands of rounds with one on competition guns. The initial ones had some issues but by the time you get to a gen2 RM06 LED adjustable its pretty well sorted. The only downside is that removal is needed for battery replacement and it collects lint like a dryer catch screen. I have dozens of them mounted on all kinds of guns. Reliability is stunning.
That said I have tried lots of other stuff and generally concluded they are not better. The DPP is not better and mostly sucks. The SRO IS better as a frame mounted optic on a competition pistol and I use it for that on a CZ but its not better when carrying it. The Aimpoint P1 is most assuredly more rugged but battery life is a problem. I've just recently got a couple of P2's to try and I suspect that will be an excellent choice in the carry world and probably better than an RMR but no long term experience yet. I don't buy holosun due to country of origin, so no experience but others say they are getting quite good.
Bottom line buy an RMR06 and you will be as happy as one can be in the current range of choices.

1. RMR is the standard right? For ruggedness, battery life also? Comparable the the Aimpoint T series as far as its place in the RDS world?

It was. Today? Harder to say. I consider the words of guys like Aaron Cowan, Scott Jedlinski, Steve Fisher, Mike Panone, Dan Smith, Chuck Pressburg, and several others to be very qualified authority and I do not think any of them are necessarily considering the RMR to be the best optic on the market today. It may be the standard by which others are judged, but I think it has been equaled and even eclipsed in nearly every way.

Jedi is currently giving top billing to the Acro P2, Steiner MPS, and Holosun 509T as a tie. The enclosed emitter and somewhat more generous window sizes help.

The biggest downfall to the RMR today is the bottom loading battery and the lack of inherent water resistance that comes with it. I don't think that that is that big a deal, but nearly every other optic on the market that is worth buying is side or top loading and sealed. I understand the "just replace the battery every year" thing, but I also enjoy not having to deal with replacing or re-prepping screws and verifying zero because of a battery changed.

That said, an RMR will serve you fine.

2. Are the internet posts about the DPP being somewhat fragile true or just repeated old news?

This is truer of older models than newer models. The newest stuff is fine. The DPP is in widespread use among competition shooters and law enforcement. Referring back to the list of guys above, I do not believe any of them have the DPP in their Top 5 or so anymore. The downsides to the DPP are the ridiculous single button interface and the very high deck height. I have exactly one DPP and while it's fine, I knew in the first hour I had it that it did not fit my needs.

3. Which do you have and are you happy with it?

I've got a bunch of optics guns. I started on a Glock 19 with a Type 1 RMR in 2014 or 2015 and currently have a mix of RMRs, Holosuns (407C/407K/507C/507K/508T/509T/EPS/EPS Carry/SCS), and one DPP for a total of about 20 guns.

I overall prefer the Holosun stuff. The biggest criticism anybody has of their products is where they are made. I don't want to minimize that, but Holosun is doing more to move the industry forward than anybody else.

I bought a FNX45 with a Vortex Viper on it Black Friday and immediately discovered you couldnt adjust the Viper and or change battery with our removing it. Long story short I found out that Sig Romeo1 was a direct mount in place of the Vortex , so i bought a Romeo on sale from Sig and it is now mounted up on my FNX45 and working well and a lot better optic.

I called Sig optics and wanted to find out specs on the optic footprint and they gave me blast of shit about how it was proprietary info. I bought the Romeo after a guy on an FN group sent me a pic of it mounted on his with no adapter plate.

After several years of testing, our Dept only authorizes the Trijicon RM06 and the Holosun 509t. The others just didn't show to be as reliable through testing, training and lots of red dot courses around the country while we built up our program.

I went with the RM06 but the 509t's are gaining favor fast, mostly due to the ease of battery swapping. I'm very happy with mine but am swaying towards at least getting one of the 509t's to try. Several guys on the team swear by converting over to theirs.

I believe the DeltaPoint to be a worthy product and will likely be added to our approved list at some point.

Eotech just launched one that looked worthy initially. Now I'm starting to hear "issues" but time will tell if it's accepted. As for the Vortex and others, they are fine for recreation guns but simply will not hold the line under hard, repeatable use compared to the Trijicon/Holosun offerings.

Not a specialist on RMR specs, however,

as far as the 507, check with CH Precision, they make a plate that allows it to mount to the P320, had to get one for my legion... Have to say, haven't mounted the optic yet, maybe this post is a good enough reason to mess with it...

https://chpws.com/

FYI just got an email, sig has Romeo optics on sale, Romeo 1 is included.

Link

I've carried an RMR, specifically an RM07 Type 2, on my duty gun since 2019. I also own several other optics and my department is now issuing the Acro P-2.

Three years ago, yes the RMR was the standard and it is still great; however, there are now other good options available.

For your gun, a SIG P320 with a R2 footing, I would choose the Romeo2 over the RMR without any thought.

It has the ability to be enclosed and has a top load battery compartment.

Aaron Cowan from Sage Dynamics pretty much wrote the book on red dot testing. One of his most recent results can be found here

https://1312bba5-e7e7-76e8-1fc...ab8bfabb23e912fa.pdf

I believe the results have shown the RMR housing shape to be the most durable of the RDS designs.

I have switched my RMR06 type 2 out for a Holosun. I initially thought removing the optic to replace batteries was not going to be a big deal but it was. Each time I replaced the batteries I had to make adjustments to zero the sight. It was a lot of time and expensive hollow point ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
It was a lot of time and expensive hollow point ammo.

Im curious to this statement. Why do you zero with “expensive hollowpoint ammo”? Do you find at 10 yards your POA/POI has a drastic shift between ammos? I ask because we have done quite a bit of testing (albeit only with Glocks) and the difference between ammo at 10 yards isn’t enough to fill up a thimble.

Something else we have found is that if you give a 2 inch radius area at 10 yards, swapping guns between shooters doesn’t matter much. IE- my zero isn’t going to be great enough to matter outside of 2 inches at 10 yards with you shooting it. Again, we did it across 15 guys with Glock pistols, so the sample size is what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
Aaron Cowan from Sage Dynamics pretty much wrote the book on red dot testing. One of his most recent results can be found here

https://1312bba5-e7e7-76e8-1fc...ab8bfabb23e912fa.pdf

I believe the results have shown the RMR housing shape to be the most durable of the RDS designs.

I have switched my RMR06 type 2 out for a Holosun. I initially thought removing the optic to replace batteries was not going to be a big deal but it was. Each time I replaced the batteries I had to make adjustments to zero the sight. It was a lot of time and expensive hollow point ammo.

I've had to mount, swap batteries, and re-mount RMR's since 2015 when our first cop started using one. I can honestly say the zero shift is negligible at best...and we confirm zero at 25 yards.

What is a pain is if you strip out an RMR screw. I much prefer the larger screws used by SIG in their optics, but I'm willing to put up with the RMR's idiosyncrasies because they're durable and I like them.

We chose the Acro P-2 because it's pretty bomb proof and hard to screw up. They are quite large though and I'm sticking to the RM07 for my personal guns until something better comes out.

I agree with Jerry and Kev. My testing at work showed a pretty negligible difference as well that for the most part was well within the capabilities of human error.

I also think one of the things that people lose sight of is how fine zeroing is with optics compared to irons. The best most guys do with irons is either 1) knowing their hold, 2) drifting the rear sight, or (and most likely) 3) just calling it "good enough." With optics you are obviously able to zero with 1 MOA adjustments. Jedi talks about how everyone tries to play sniper with their pistols.

If you're concerned about being dialed in to the exact click with your defensive ammunition, you might try getting it zeroed to the exact click with practice ammo and then shooting maybe a couple groups with your defensive stuff to fine tune.

Another thing a lot of people don't think about with their defensive stuff: it may be "expensive", but your should consider only the price difference between practice and defensive ammo as long as you were going to fire the rounds anyway. Now your $0.60/round defensive stuff is "only" $0.35/round more than your training ammo and it's not like you're shooting even a full box of it. It also is an opportunity to refresh your carry rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
It was a lot of time and expensive hollow point ammo.

Im curious to this statement. Why do you zero with “expensive hollowpoint ammo”? Do you find at 10 yards your POA/POI has a drastic shift between ammos? I ask because we have done quite a bit of testing (albeit only with Glocks) and the difference between ammo at 10 yards isn’t enough to fill up a thimble.

Something else we have found is that if you give a 2 inch radius area at 10 yards, swapping guns between shooters doesn’t matter much. IE- my zero isn’t going to be great enough to matter outside of 2 inches at 10 yards with you shooting it. Again, we did it across 15 guys with Glock pistols, so the sample size is what it is.

I have a Glock 17 gen5 MOS with a Holosun 507. I find the American eagle ball to hit about an inch higher than Federal HST at 10 yards.

I start at 10 yrds with ball then tighten that group with a few HST. I move back to 25 for the final zero with HST only.

I am by no means a bulleye shooter. A 5 shot group would consist of 2 left, 2 right and one center. The next group would have 3 right and 2 left. It’s obviously the shooter but I keep doubting my groups.