I’m going to be working part time as a police officer again. I really missed the work, and I look forward to serving again. The job is most certainly NOT about the money. Having said that, I feel like treating myself to a Commander 1911, as well as possibly a Staccato P (not for duty use).

I love my Wilson pistols. I find their workmanship to be excellent and I really like their pistols. The problem I’m having is their abandonment of Larry Vickers. The dude is a legit hard charger, and a man that I truly admire. He got targeted by the out of control agency that targeted my reputation, and ultimately cost me about $100k in legal fees that I may never get back in order to keep my good name. From my friends still there I can say unequivocally that ATF is a failed agency, and I fully believe that prosecuting LAV was asinine.

Having said all that, I’m really trying to support issues in line with my beliefs. Running for sheriff myself made me realize how vast the swamp truly is, at all levels, and when someone does the right thing I like to support them, and conversely not support them when they do something in opposition to my beliefs. Now clearly, it’s not possible to do that with everything, but we’re talking about a higher end firearm here, so I can pretty reasonably support my beliefs. My problem is that I really love my Wilson pistols and want another, yet at the same time am really turned off that Bill Wilson seems to be about the only 1911 guy that turned his back on Larry Vickers. So what say you SIGforum? Have I missed any news that Wilson has made amends with LAV? If Bruce Gray would build me a 1911, I wouldn’t be torn, but it’s pretty clear he’s out of that business. Is anyone else avoiding Wilson Combat based upon their abandonment of Larry Vickers?

If you want "like Wilson Combat but not Wilson Combat" check out Nighthawk Custom. Located just down the road from Wilson Combat in the same town (Berryville, Arkansas), and was formed by a trio of long-serving Wilson Combat gunsmiths who split off from Wilson a couple decades back.

https://www.nighthawkcustom.com/


As for Wilson and Vickers, I don't know all the details between the severing of their relationship, but I think the simple truth is that Wilson Combat's hands were tied. Larry ended up pleading guilty to multiple felonies and is now a convicted felon. And at the end of the day, a gun company simply can't have a convicted felon be the face of their guns. I don't think this is some personal middle finger from Bill Wilson to Larry Vickers. Rather, Wilson Combat (the company) has no alternative here but to cut ties.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
As for Wilson "abandoning" Larry, I think their hands are tied. Regardless of the backstory, the guy is now a convicted felon. And at the end of the day, a gun company can't have a convicted felon be the face of their guns.

Totally agree with this. Additionally, as much as I despise the NFA and want it repealed, it is currently still the law, and, with Vickers being in the firearm business and as FFL, you can't possibly tell me that he's ignorant of the law. This is all on him. What the hell was he thinking? That he's a celebrity, and they were going to close their eyes and look the other way? Every gun owner should realize that the ATF is never ever your friend.

My point of view...Sounds like Bill Wilson valued his business more than his friendship with LAV.

I say if your life is going to depend on it, the last thing that should factor into your decision is people drama, especially anything stemming from Larry Vickers latest screw up.

If you trust it to go bang when it's supposed to, you shoot it well, and you can afford it then buy it and don't think twice about it.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
As for Wilson and Vickers, I don't know all the details between the severing of their relationship, but I think the simple truth is that Wilson Combat's hands were tied. Larry ended up pleading guilty to multiple felonies and is now a convicted felon. And at the end of the day, a gun company simply can't have a convicted felon be the face of their guns. I don't think this is some personal middle finger from Bill Wilson to Larry Vickers. Rather, Wilson Combat (the company) has no alternative here but to cut ties.

As the owner of two Wilson Combat Vickers Elite Glock 19s; I can say that I agree with your statement completely.

Why would a company associate themselves with a felon?

As much as many of us like Larry Vickers and his work, he did make many really bad choices that effectively ended his entire career with firearms.

I’m reminded of Reagan’s statement that he didn’t leave the Democrat party- the Democrat party left him.

I think Wilson didn’t leave Vickers, but Vickers left Wilson when he clearly, knowingly, and intentionally committed firearms felonies.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
As for Wilson "abandoning" Larry, I think their hands are tied. Regardless of the backstory, the guy is now a convicted felon. And at the end of the day, a gun company can't have a convicted felon be the face of their guns.

Totally agree with this. Additionally, as much as I despise the NFA and want it repealed, it is currently still the law, and, with Vickers being in the firearm business and as FFL, you can't possibly tell me that he's ignorant of the law. This is all on him. What the hell was he thinking? That he's a celebrity, and they were going to close their eyes and look the other way? Every gun owner should realize that the ATF is never ever your friend.

Not to mention only some of the charges were BATFE-related, the others were from sanctions and LAV's clear intent to subvert them.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
I’m reminded of Reagan’s statement that he didn’t leave the Democrat party- the Democrat party left him.

I think Wilson didn’t leave Vickers, but Vickers left Wilson when he clearly, knowingly, and intentionally committed firearms felonies.

Well said.

I also think that Wilson will now focus even more effort on building and providing high quality handguns to prove that one man does not define their companies product design and quality. Just my opinion..

I agree, Wilson should not maintain business dealings with Vickers. But who knows, maybe they still quietly socialize.

Which brings up something I do not understand.
Why should one gun company name a product after somebody else in the business? Vickers did not put a gun together very often but when he did it got rave reviews, which makes him a competitor.
Nighthawk is worse, with Marvel and Heinie models.

Beretta has LTT models built to specs from Langdon Tactical. Most any manufacturer will build to spec with a minimum order size. Heck, Wilson Combat had Beretta build them the 92G Brigadier Tactical and 92G Centurion Tactical guns using the same program as LTT. So, Wilson doing a Vickers Tactical model...same as Glock doing a Vickers Tactical line.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
Nighthawk is worse, with Marvel and Heinie models.

For starters, Richard Heinie and Bob Marvel don't make guns anymore, and when they did, they were very small batch custom orders that cost a lot. In addition, both Heinie and Marvel worked with the Nighthawk gunsmiths on some of their philosophy and style on how to build their versions of a 1911 more than just using their parts. The Nighthawk Heinie and Marvel models are now about the only way you're getting that work done under 4 figures.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
I agree, Wilson should not maintain business dealings with Vickers. But who knows, maybe they still quietly socialize...

Doubt it, when Vickers went on one of the social media afterwards, trashing WC for dropping him. Whining about how his name was making money for WC, but conveniently ignoring the fact that he was at the same time making money off of WC. Ridiculous. I get it, you were military and SF, and now you're big shot in the firearm community. But, that doesn't give you a welcome arm to break the law.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
Nighthawk is worse, with Marvel and Heinie models.

For starters, Richard Heinie and Bob Marvel don't make guns anymore, and when they did, they were very small batch custom orders that cost a lot. In addition, both Heinie and Marvel worked with the Nighthawk gunsmiths on some of their philosophy and style on how to build their versions of a 1911 more than just using their parts. The Nighthawk Heinie and Marvel models are now about the only way you're getting that work done under 4 figures.

I assume you meant under 5 figures?

quote:

Originally posted by 1KPerDay:
The Nighthawk Heinie and Marvel models are now about the only way you're getting that work done under 4 figures.

quote:

I assume you meant under 5 figures?

The Nighthawks are 4 figures. A custom from either Heinie or Marvel is definitely in the 5 figure range.

The other distinction is Larry Vickers is not a firearm manufacturer. It's not like Sig and Glock teaming up on a project while competing against each other much like Richard Heinie and Bob Marvel aren't competing against Nighthawk.

quote:

The Nighthawk Heinie and Marvel models are now about the only way you're getting that work done under 4 figures.

Do you mean that a $4299 Nighthawk Heinie is a better made gun than a $4299 Nighthawk Predator?

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Doubt it, when Vickers went on one of the social media afterwards, trashing WC for dropping him. Whining about how his name was making money for WC, but conveniently ignoring the fact that he was at the same time making money off of WC. Ridiculous. I get it, you were military and SF, and now you're big shot in the firearm community. But, that doesn't give you a welcome arm to break the law.

You have touched on the exact posting that triggered this thread in the first place. I totally understand why companies would sever a business relationship under the circumstances, but it seemed like Wilson wasn’t really being a good friend to someone that he was previously close to and that kinda rubbed me the wrong way. Admittedly, I haven’t paid too close of attention to this, and as per usual, SIGforum has been able to fill in the missing details for me. It sounds like this situation might not have been as bad as it seemed, so I can go about purchasing another Wilson Combat pistol with a clear conscience. Thanks for the input folks!

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG:
Is anyone else avoiding Wilson Combat based upon their abandonment of Larry Vickers?

I own two Wilsons, a CQB in .45acp and an EDC XL9L, some of my favorite handguns. I have no problem with Wilson's decision to sever ties with Vickers, a man I have always respected as far as videos. What I know about his actions (involving an FN FAL, MP5s, Glock G18s, etc), he knew he was skirting the law, unfair laws, but law of the land that the rest of us must follow. He got caught, he should have owned up and taken the pinch like a man. Bill Wilson did nothing wrong; he owns a large business, supports numerous vendors, employees and families ; it would be ridiculous for him to throw it all away to back up a friend in a federal case. Bill Wilson had no choice.

Vickers is a moron. He knew exactly what he was doing got caught and has to deal with the consequences.

I’d be bothered if Wilson kept the relationship going.