I just saw this announcement yesterday:


http://www.apextactical.com/bl...iggers-for-sig-p320/

Wonder if they copied the GRAYGUNS design?

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
Wonder if they copied the GRAYGUNS design?

Too much professional respect for this to happen. I actually saw Randy Lee and Bruce Gray having a conversation at Shot I smiled to myself knowing that they were talking shop. They have worked together in the past and are most likely friends so there's not going to be any design infringements.

I saw that new trigger video too. I'm curious if the trigger makes for a longer pull and if the reset is the same. Since I have small hands, I was also concerned on whether the trigger will sit further forward or not.

Does anyone think that the flat trigger sits further forward than the curved one as far as how you grip the gun and hold the trigger?

I have the same concerns with GRAYGUNS upgrade. I will be buying one or the other.

I have both the original apex and the gg pelt trigger. The one thing that I don't particularly like about the gg trigger is that it pretty much removes the audible click at reset. While minor, I like the audible reset. I also prefer the apex actual trigger face and feel vs the gg trigger. Again minor and subjective. I'll probably get the apex and give it a try. Price seems decent.

Looks like these Apex triggers have the "adverse trigger" protrusion above the trigger face too.

The Gray Guns triggers don't, and neither do the earlier Apex P320 triggers.

I have gray guns it's great .

I pre-ordered the Apex Curved Advanced Trigger last week from Midway USA. I just received notice that it shipped. I'll post a review once I get it installed.

Just ordered the Apex flat when I saw it was available at M-USA. Thanks for the heads up!

I have the original Apex flat trigger in one of my 320's, and the new Apex flat trigger (2lb less pull) in another of my 320's.

Both are great but I really don't notice much difference in trigger weight with the new one.

I do prefer the flat trigger over the stock one. Much better feel to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Draggun:
I have both the original apex and the gg pelt trigger. The one thing that I don't particularly like about the gg trigger is that it pretty much removes the audible click at reset. While minor, I like the audible reset. I also prefer the apex actual trigger face and feel vs the gg trigger. Again minor and subjective. I'll probably get the apex and give it a try. Price seems decent.

Hi! I assume by now you have tried Brand X, and can offer an informed comparison? Please try our PELT with the factory spring. I bet you'll find that our trigger provides better reset, and somewhat shorter travel at a comparable pull weight. There are reasons why.

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Looks like these Apex triggers have the "adverse trigger" protrusion above the trigger face too.

The Gray Guns triggers don't, and neither do the earlier Apex P320 triggers.

A couple years of actual testing indicates that tbe "adverse trigger" features are meaningless at the pull weights we achieve. Why copy something that does nothing, and which many users object to?

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by yanici:
I saw that new trigger video too. I'm curious if the trigger makes for a longer pull and if the reset is the same. Since I have small hands, I was also concerned on whether the trigger will sit further forward or not.

Does anyone think that the flat trigger sits further forward than the curved one as far as how you grip the gun and hold the trigger?

I have the same concerns with GRAYGUNS upgrade. I will be buying one or the other.

Hi! I can speak for our designs, since we originated them at great expense, and with great care for nuance and details.

Our PELT triggers are dimensioned to fit the great majority of FCU's optimally. That fit of axle to FCU is crucial to reliability, and to obtaining minimal possible pre-and-after travel. To get there, Grayguns holds our triggers to extremely close tolerances, at dimensions which fall within tbe high median range of factory tolerances for the surfaces and release points it must function in.

For that reason, about 3% of our customer's FCU's do not accept our standard trigger. For them,
we offer alternative/fit variants, backed by our dedicated CS Crew.

It would be easier and way cheaper to make a "small" trigger that fits every frame, but that necessarily comes at the expense of optimal trigger feel and net travel performance for a large percentage of our clients. Our experience and unparalleled knowledge of the P320 says a sloppy trigger won't work well enough, and certainly won't justify our lifetime guarantee.

The one thing that can't be imitated is that experience, which makes it all work the way we designed it to.

Thanks for letting me explain here.

-Bruce

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Grayguns,

quote:

Originally posted by mrtuna:

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
Wonder if they copied the GRAYGUNS design?

Too much professional respect for this to happen. I actually saw Randy Lee and Bruce Gray having a conversation at Shot I smiled to myself knowing that they were talking shop. They have worked together in the past and are most likely friends so there's not going to be any design infringements.

Our enhanced-leverage concept is described in our patent application, and we were not consulted.

It is what it is.

-Bruce

Thanks Bruce for your informations, it's a pleasure to have someone like you on this forum!

Ahhh Bruce...

"...backed by our deficated CS Crew."

yep..we do appreciate your contributions to the shooting community and the discussion on the forum. I will be getting your trigger in the future!!

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
Ahhh Bruce...

"...backed by our deficated CS Crew."

Whoops.

quote:

Originally posted by toto:
Thanks Bruce for your informations, it's a pleasure to have someone like you on this forum!

Thank you! The privilege is really mine. The fact is, without Sigforum and Para, there would be no Grayguns. We never would have taken care of multiple thousands of our customers (while Andre'and maybe ten other guys would have not been kept waiting for their sick gunsmith to finish their art pieces). P220-10's and Legions and a bunch of other cool SIG and Grayguns products never would have happened as they did. 20 good people would not have the cool jobs and benefits they now enjoy.

And I wouldn't have made many wonderful friends.

It's been hard on us but I'm grateful, and wouldn't take a bit of it all back.

-Bruce

I received my Apex Curved Advanced Trigger today. The first thing I noticed is that there is almost no bevel to the edged of the trigger, so it feels a bit wider than either the factory or Gray Guns trigger. I also noticed that the curve is not as pronounced as the curve on the other two triggers.

Next, I measured the length of trigger from the bottom of the "axle" to the top of the pin that engages the trigger bar. The factory trigger measured .6225 inches. The Gray Guns trigger measured .5365 inches, and the Apex trigger was in between, at .5690 inches. With this data, I anticipated that the Apex trigger would have a pull weight somewhere between the other two triggers.

Installing the trigger was easy, as would be expected on the P320. I don't have a trigger gauge, so I'm going by feel, but the pull weight did appear to be in between the other two. I did not notice any slop, grit, or other undesirable aspects.

I did try the Gray Guns trigger and liked it, but I had some reliability issues with it not resetting on my particular P320, and it felt a bit too light for me to comfortably carry. I need to confirm my initial impressions with some range time, but I think this will be my P320 trigger of choice.