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posted
Not really trying to start any fights. I will stipulate at the onset, HK makes fine weapons.

For me, however, one of the added benies of a Sig is that it's really easy to work on. I have swapped out triggers, installed SRT's. fitted barrels - all easy and pretty simple. I just got my Matrix frame and will be "constructing" a P228 from parts I have sitting around.

OTOH, I just spent a really frustrating several hours trying to install a GG SRT kit in one of my USPc's. Nothing went right. I do believe I've done every part of that conversion at least a half dozen times. 'Course it doesn't help there don't seem to be many decent UYubes to watch. Sigs, OTOH, are all over the place.

Started with replacing the spring in the slide (firing pin safety needs a different spring - included in the kit). Ended up losing the disconnect SOMEWHERE. It was only about impossible to install correctly anyway, so I suppose it serves it right to get lost. Only now I have a non-functioning pistol. Grrr!

Sometimes I just get to hate Germans!
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: August 30, 2023Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not sure what problem you are having.

I've installed a number of GG's SRT kits. One of the problems they say is "rare" is the safety lever top nub won't drop down far enough (even if hammer is decocked and forward) for the slide to go onto the frame.

The problem is the back side of the lower safety lever leg is not recessed enough where it contacts the hammer pivot pin. The fix is to remove a bit of metal on the back side of the safety lever so the leg can move back a bit further as this allows the upper nub to drop down enough to clear the slide with the hammer down (always decock prior to putting the slide back on).

Do not remove material from the upper nub, while that will let you assemble the gun, it will also reduce lift on the firing pin block safety plunger.
 
Posts: 1303 | Location: Nevada, United States | Registered: April 13, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not a fan of working on HKs either. Never did what you're attempting; I've done detail strips of several of my HKs and have never relished the "achievement" of putting them back together.

Classic P-SIGs are easier to work on as well for me, though I've had my trials with the magazine catch and losing the pin catch when it launches across the room because I forgot how easy it was to lose the damn part. And getting the rear reset spring(?) aligned correctly sometimes has irked me.


-MG
 
Posts: 2032 | Location: The commie, rainy side of WA | Registered: April 19, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This will help--how to detail strip a P30.
https://www.hkproshop.com/foru...30ls-part-1-of-2.13/

You need to know how the retaining spring is held in place by the firing pin retaining block. That is NOT explained in any video.
Replacing the trigger rebound spring is another lesson in frustration. NO video shows the orientation of the legs. The needle nose pliers that can grasp the spring aids in placing the spring into the correct alignment.
 
Posts: 2309 | Location: Southeast CT | Registered: January 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diablo Blanco
Picture of dking271
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quote:
NO video shows the orientation of the legs. The needle nose pliers that can grasp the spring aids in placing the spring into the correct alignment.


I had to step away from my USP9SD when installing the match trigger multiple times for days. I finally bought the little pliers that hold the spring and was done in less than 10 minutes. Taught me to make sure I had the right tools before I started a job. I installed a Cajun Gun Works Pro-package trigger kit in a CZ PCR and can say the HK is easier than the CZ de-cocker cage assembly. Having the right tools and good videos to follow did make the process very doable.


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Posts: 2982 | Location: Middle-TN | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think it is the lack of clear videos perhaps. HK’s are pretty easy. I think the hardest part is the LEM elbow spring. I couldn’t find cleat videos of the orientation. Luckily I have multiples and just kept checking on an assembled one.

CZ decocker are the good standard in pain in the ass. Even with good videos the first couple sear cages can be a nightmare.
 
Posts: 7540 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by bumper:
Not sure what problem you are having.

I've installed a number of GG's SRT kits. One of the problems they say is "rare" is the safety lever top nub won't drop down far enough (even if hammer is decocked and forward) for the slide to go onto the frame.

The problem is the back side of the lower safety lever leg is not recessed enough where it contacts the hammer pivot pin. The fix is to remove a bit of metal on the back side of the safety lever so the leg can move back a bit further as this allows the upper nub to drop down enough to clear the slide with the hammer down (always decock prior to putting the slide back on).

Do not remove material from the upper nub, while that will let you assemble the gun, it will also reduce lift on the firing pin block safety plunger.


I am having trouble fitting the catch back in. To the point that it popped out (SOMEWHERE) and I can't find it so will have to buy another it seems. Also, while I can see how the plate that clicks the safety on the left is oriented, it just doesn't seem to want to go back in there.

Can't say replacing the spring under the firing pin safety was a ball of fun either, but at least i got that back todether properly (after chasing that darn little spring around the floor a number of times!).
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: August 30, 2023Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SIGfourme:
This will help--how to detail strip a P30.
https://www.hkproshop.com/foru...30ls-part-1-of-2.13/

You need to know how the retaining spring is held in place by the firing pin retaining block. That is NOT explained in any video.
Replacing the trigger rebound spring is another lesson in frustration. NO video shows the orientation of the legs. The needle nose pliers that can grasp the spring aids in placing the spring into the correct alignment.


Wow! That may be the best set of pics I've seen about the insides of these pistols. It doesn't translate directly to the USPc but it's close.

Thank you!
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: August 30, 2023Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by pedropcola:
I think it is the lack of clear videos perhaps. HK’s are pretty easy. I think the hardest part is the LEM elbow spring. I couldn’t find cleat videos of the orientation. Luckily I have multiples and just kept checking on an assembled one.

CZ decocker are the good standard in pain in the ass. Even with good videos the first couple sear cages can be a nightmare.


^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

Sigs just seem to have videos all over the place. I'm not sure it REALLY is that much harder, although I know the tricks on doing Sig stuff, so it's far easier. But other than doing things like holding the sear in place with a cotton swab and some grease on it, or manipulating the cross piece with a small screw driver when reinstalling a locking block, they're pretty easy - and OPEN. The worst part of this seems to be that one needs to reinsert parts in small space - by feel. My hands are both large and old; I shake some. So all this is harder. Reassembling the FCU's on 320's and even the 365 was easier it seems.
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: August 30, 2023Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hks can be a pain but the worst for me was the Ruger P89 and more specifically the magazine release. I bought an older gun years ago and it was a workhorse, so I thought I would refinish it and then replace all of the springs. That was a pain. How they made something that should be easy to do and made it more difficult is beyond me.

Like others have said, Sigs have more videos and to me, are easier to access- even the tiny parts- compared to my Hk guns.
 
Posts: 6925 | Location: Treasure Coast,Fl. | Registered: July 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
Picture of cslinger
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Why would you need to work on an HK? They are forged from unobtanium and quenched in unicorn tears before they are blessed by Tibetan monks on the backs of naked virgins. Do you have a naked virgin to work on your HK with???? I thought not. Smile

Seriously though I am an HK guy so to speak but that’s pretty much the answer you get from Alot of “HK People”. Smile.

I think the issue with having more SIG info breakdowns, knowledge base etc. basically comes down to two things.
-HK’s, just like SIGs in general are excellent guns that rarely need stuff done.
-HK’s are traditionally stupid money especially for a “plastic gun” and therefore your user base is smaller, likely by a pretty good margin.

So smaller user base, good gun…….not a lot of how to’s out there.

I think the most important thing with HK’s is to make sure you have the right tools, like the TRS Pliers noted above.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 7710 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by patw:
Hks can be a pain but the worst for me was the Ruger P89 and more specifically the magazine release. I bought an older gun years ago and it was a workhorse, so I thought I would refinish it and then replace all of the springs. That was a pain. How they made something that should be easy to do and made it more difficult is beyond me.

Like others have said, Sigs have more videos and to me, are easier to access- even the tiny parts- compared to my Hk guns.


Ruger, huh? My first gun was a Single Six and I took that apart, but it's a wheelie, so pretty easy. But the Marine Corps taught me to tear down all the infantry weapons, and ever since I've kind of thought I should be able to do that to the stuff I carry. Sigs were pretty straight forward, but these HK's are a bummer. They start with the world's worst DA trigger and go from there. Amazes me no end there's such a strong fan club.
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: August 30, 2023Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shall Not Be Infringed
Picture of nhracecraft
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Honestly, I installed a Match LEM Hybrid Trigger on an HK USP and I did not find it that difficult. The pistol was originally DAO and the trigger SUCKED, so in order to fix that I was essentially converting it to a USP Combat Competition model with the LEM Match Hybrid Trigger. Swapping the TRS (Trigger Return Spring) was a bit tricky and required some patience, but I was able to do it w/o any special tools.

These three step-by-step videos from FirearmTutorials.com were EXTREMELY helpful:

HK USP LEM Trigger Installation part 1 --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp7z2LGZdLc

HK USP LEM Trigger Installation part 2 --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6Bgtmy0n0

HK USP LEM Trigger Installation part 3 --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5MZpLxmwpA

HK USP LEM Trigger Installation part 4 --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5SQDpjgu8A

The hardest part of the project was actually identifying/assembling/procuring all of the necessary parts as my USP was an early 'KE' 1994 variant, as there were a number of design changes implemented requiring me to update some of the components (which included the change from a one-piece catch to two-piece catch) in order to make it all work. I was able to get it all figured out parts wise through extensive searching on HKPro and Pistol-Forum. Believe it or not, other that the LEM kit which I purchased here in the SIGforum Classifieds, ALL of the other conversion parts to either update to the new design where required, or the Match LEM Hybrid specific parts not in the LEM kit were purchased directly from HK...Apparently they actually don't hate me! Cool

There is good info for working on the HK USP & USPc out there if you look hard enough. Hope this helps! Wink


ETA - Discovered there was a another video...Part 4 covers installation of the sear, catch, control latch, and disconnect.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nhracecraft,


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Posts: 9013 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[/QUOTE]

Ruger, huh? My first gun was a Single Six and I took that apart, but it's a wheelie, so pretty easy. [/QUOTE]

The Ruger's 2 piece magazine release is a bear to install,removing not so much.

With the Hk, having the tool for the trigger spring takes a lot of the hassle out installing that, which was one of the more difficult things to do with my P30. The Vp9(s) I have are a different monster but not bad.
 
Posts: 6925 | Location: Treasure Coast,Fl. | Registered: July 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've had no special trouble on HK's versus SIG's but one of the huge benefits of the HK system is that you can have your choice of a zillion operating system choices and therefore there a possibly a bunch of different parts in there. At some point I acquired a few special tools but didn't have that for awhile so they are not totally necessary. I managed my first several with the armour's manual and an intact clone to look at (yup I know that's a luxury sometimes).


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11030 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The GG SRT kit ddoes not require removal of the trigger spring, nor the hammer or trigger - supposedly. I could look into the pistol and see fingers of the trigger spring. I am presuming the sear went behind the spring leaf, as does the catch. Took a while to recognize the disconnect went down far enough to drive the pin through the hole, but once I figured that out, got that part in relatively easily. BUT I had real issues getting the catch and the control latch to go in together. Nor quite how the safety plate goes back in, but the video did suggest one aspect that might make it easier.

Those 3 videos @NHRACECRAFT published helped a lot in understanding relationships. Up to now I've been assuming some of them purely by looking, so thanks for that.

Had to order a new catch from Midwest Guns. Should be here in the mail in a week or so, then back to "installation".

Thanks for all the help and insight, guys. ?What are the special pliers I saw mentioned a couple times. ?Are they HK specials.
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: August 30, 2023Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shall Not Be Infringed
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Apparently there was another video in the series...Part 4 covers installation of the sear, catch, control latch, and disconnect. I edited my previous post to add the link there.

Re: the 'special pliers' as I recall, it seemed that they were just a set of needle nose pliers that have been modified to install the HK TRS. I’m not sure if I had actually found them for sale at the time, but HKParts.net currently lists these as In Stock at $16.95:

https://hkparts.net/product/tr...-pistols-p16031.htm/

Turns out they’re a thing...HKParts.net also lists these Knipex Pliers, which they indicate is the factory HK German tool used in the HK armorer classes at $139.95 Eek

https://hkparts.net/product/tr...lier-hk-pistols.htm/

Of course they're NOT in stock, but they look REALLY Nice! Even if they were though, at that price for essentially a single use tool, I'd ‘probably’ pass if I was doing the job today. Of course, die-hard HK fans can usually justify HK things even when they know they shouldn’t! Razz

I forget exactly how I installed the TRS on my USP but I didn't need the special pliers. I only used standard tools (including a pile of small punches, extra skinny needle nose pliers, a few small metal crochet hooks, hemostats, and some strong wooden toothpicks, etc.), but did have a third hand though, as I have a ‘Sentinal Plate’ from Present Arms with the appropriate Mag Post to hold the frame while I used 'my other two hands' to perform the more delicate tasks Wink

https://www.presentarmsshop.co...0-beretta-m9-sig-224

FYI - I also found these two threads on HKPro that specifically discuss the TRS Install.

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/...-spring-tool.483210/
https://www.hkpro.com/threads/...ll-made-easy.160394/

Apparently the straw from a can of WD-40 can be modified and used as a tool to aid in the installation of the TRS...I did not know that! Cool


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If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !!
Trump 2024....Save America!
"May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20
Live Free or Die!
 
Posts: 9013 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
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Could be you are just more familiar with Sigs than HK's.
Don't worry, some day you will get there. Smile

I love both and choosing would like having to pick which kid you like best.

When I installed my GG SRT in my HK USPc ~ I had problems too.
I had the detent go flying and and had to buy one from Top Gun Supply.
Wouldn't you know it, as always I later found it cleaning up.

I also had a problem that my weapon was a tad older and the FP spring was not compatible.

Called GG and Chris responded on cue ~ I ended up just leaving in the old one without much an issue, I may eventually buy all the other parts to upgrade but this is so minor, I have chose not to do it right now.
YMMV
 
Posts: 22974 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That 4th video was helpful. The previous one had his hand blocking the view. Can’t wait for the catch to arrive, to once again attempt getting this right.

I have long needle nose grips I bought long ago on sale. They came as a set in a leather case, and over the years they have been most useful.

I rather object to having to install things “by braille”. To some degree most guns have something installed that way, but the HK’s trigger stuff seems more so than usual. Perhaps it’s just me not being accustomed to it. I have another USPc to put that kit into, this one .357 Sig. it’s a tad shorter in length but I don’t think that will make any difference. So this is the “practice” one.

Again thanks for all your help - to all of you. Amazing how much help just TALKING gives you.
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: August 30, 2023Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
Could be you are just more familiar with Sigs than HK's.
Don't worry, some day you will get there. Smile

I love both and choosing would like having to pick which kid you like best.

When I installed my GG SRT in my HK USPc ~ I had problems too.
I had the detent go flying and and had to buy one from Top Gun Supply.
Wouldn't you know it, as always I later found it cleaning up.

I also had a problem that my weapon was a tad older and the FP spring was not compatible.

Called GG and Chris responded on cue ~ I ended up just leaving in the old one without much an issue, I may eventually buy all the other parts to upgrade but this is so minor, I have chose not to do it right now.
YMMV


Oh, there's absolutely no doubt i am way more familiar with Sigs than HK's. That said, it is my feeling that working on a Sig is lots easier than working on an HK. There are also lots fewer choices of things to add/put on an HK than on a Sig. Just look at the videos. There are a TON of them for Sigs, and darn few for HK's. There are aq bazillion admonishments not to work on an HK unless you're a qualified gunsmith, but few of those for Sigs. Or even Glocks. CZ's are another brand you tend to send off for work.
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: August 30, 2023Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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