quote:

Originally posted by WCCPHD:
Only have one word to say about this:

OUCH

Lol. It's not really that bad. Shoting a whole box would probably wear you out, but for what it's intended to be used for, it's manageable.

I took it out today to chronograph some loads alongside the 69 to see what kind of benefit it's giving from the longer barrel. I was hoping to do some penetration testing, too, but I used up all the milk jugs with the .45 before I got to try out the .44s ( https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...935/m/7060046205/p/3).

The following were my chronograph results:

Handload 240gr XTP over 19 grains of of 2400:
Model 69: 1092 FPS
Model 329PD: 1109 FPS

Handload 240gr Magtech JSP over 23.4gr H110
Model 69: 1135 FPS
Model 329PD: 1195 FPS

Underwood 255gr Keith SWC
Model 69: 1177 FPS
Model 329PD: 1240 FPS

All loads shot to point of aim at about 7 yards with no pressure signs. Extraction was easy in both guns. I'm not sure how Underwood is pushing that bullet so fast, as my H110 load is just about maxed out and I'm 45 FPS slower with a lighter bullet. The longer barrel of the 329 helps a bit, especially with the slower H110 powder, but not as much as I'd anticipated.

Felt recoil is a little worse with the 329 than the 69, but not horrifically so. The 69 is smoother and has a better trigger. The 329 weighs in right at 26 ounces unloaded, while the 69 is 33oz. If I could only have one, I'd keep the 69, but the 329 fills a particular niche.



The 329 is also deceptively large...even after reducing the grips I can't get the zipper to close all the way on my kit bag with it in there.





My new Pachmayr Diamond Pros didn't come until after the range session, so I spent some time installing and fitting them tonight. I spent a good amount of time with the bench sander knocking the butt down and reducing the finger grooves. The screw hole in the grips didn't line up with the frame hole initially, so I had to stick the butt of the rubber grip in a vice and apply some pressure to get it to flex into position so I could insert the screw. I prefer them to the factory grips, but still like the "customized" Hogues on my 69 better. I'm still a little bitter that Hogue doesn't make them for the N-Frame. Just for reference, here's what it looks like when you stick K-Frame grips on an N-Frame...close, but no cigar.

I’m glad you like the Diamond Pros.
On a high-powered N-frame, having a covered and cushioned backstrap makes all the difference in the world.

The grips from Thailand arrived today. Not bad shipping time considering they came from the antipodes. Overall quality seems pretty good. They’re nicely finished and have a practical texture that provides some grip but doesn’t tear up your hands or shirt. Like the set of K-Frame target grips I got from this seller, they’re a little orange, but it doesn’t bother me. The length is perfect…just long enough in all the right places, with no extra overhang. And when wearing them, the gun fits in my HPG kit bag, which was the ultimate goal!



Fitment to the frame isn’t perfect. They’re a little proud at the heel, but my hand doesn’t really contact the frame in that area anyway, so it’s not a problem. It’s also going to be an easy fix with a little bit of sanding.



Of greater concern is that they don’t follow the line of the backstrap at the top. This is the most important part of the grip, as I drive the web of my hand into the top of the backstrap to prevent the gun from slamming me under recoil, and I’d really like as wide a base as possible to spread the impact out (like the rubber Hogues on the 69). Unfortunately, I’m not going to get that from these (I can take material off, but can’t add it where it isn’t), but at least they are nicely contoured and don’t have sharp 90 degree edges like the factory Altmonts.





Like I found on the rubber bantam grips from Hogue, the finger grooves are a problem. I need the front of the grip to naturally drive the back of my hand into the top strap. Just like shooting a shotgun where you want the stock tight to your shoulder with zero gap, I want my hand tight into the top of the grip. Unfortunately, the finger groove positioning pulls my hand down and away. I can compensate for it if I’m methodical about it, but it’s not ideal.



You can see the gap that it’s creating between my pinkie and ring finger, which is enough to draw my hand lower on the gun than I want. That second finger groove is gonna have a date with the belt sander, and the upper one might as well. It should be doable since they’re wood. The excellent Hogue rubber K/L frame grips on my 69 were very well-suited to customization…the Pachmayr’s I had on the 329 earlier didn’t tolerate it quite as well.



I wanted to actually shoot it before I modified anything to confirm the handling under real recoil. My son and I took it to the range with 50 rounds of 240gr JSP over a stout charge of H110. I can definitely say this thing will hurt you if you don’t hold it right. Even if you do, you’re not going to want to shoot a whole lot of these thumpers through it. I will likely work up a softer practice load for it, more along the lines of a stout .44 Special, just to make range sessions easier on me and the gun. But it’s nice to know it’ll handle the heavy stuff if required. I decided to try the last 6 shots rapid fire from 7 yards, just to see what would happen. If you maintain a tight grip it’s manageable, but by rounds 5 and 6 you’re starting to feel it. Those were the two at the top. There’s genuine relief when this gun runs empty, lol. And no, RichardC, I didn’t opt to try it RHO and LHO, lol.



While shooting it is harsh, this gun carries like a dream. We went to a local nature trail and walked the dog after the range, and I kept it on my hip in a DeSantis Speed Scabbard. I didn’t feel it at all while we were walking, and the grips conceal well under a sweatshirt. The muzzle does dig into the car seat a bit, which is the natural result of any barrel longer than 3”, but it’s not too bad. After the walk the dog and I crashed on the couch for a bit and took a nap. I never took the gun off. Didn’t feel it when I woke up, either. I don’t know of any better comfort endorsement for a gun/holster combo than being able to fall asleep with it on!

My work schedule is kind of a mess right now, and the next few days are going to be pretty hectic, but when things settle down a bit I’m going to sand these things into what I want and go try it again. I’ll report back when I do.

I’ve been thinking about one of these for a couple of years now . A local and very small gun shop has had a new 329 in the display case for at least 8 months now . Probably could get it for cost because after talking to the manager they really want it gone .

quote:

Originally posted by Nick B:
I’ve been thinking about one of these for a couple of years now . A local and very small gun shop has had a new 329 in the display case for at least 8 months now . Probably could get it for cost because after talking to the manager they really want it gone .

It's definitely a very specific tool for a specific application. I wouldn't want it to be my only .44. I'm glad I bought the 69 first, and that gun isn't going anywhere.

The 329 is not a good range toy, nor is it really optimized for hunting. It's expensive, hurts to shoot, requires specialized cleaning procedures, and is likely to prove more fragile than a steel gun by round count. But if you spend a lot of time in the woods or some other place that warrants a self-defense hand cannon, and are likely to carry it for miles and only shoot it when absolutely necessary, this is probably the best thing out there.

Loaded with .44 Specials, it could probably be a decent EDC big-bore revolver, honestly. I think I'd rather have something like a 396 in that role, because the N-Frame is huge, but you could probably make it work. I haven't tried shooting light loads in it yet...I'll definitely add to this thread when I get a chance to do that.

I didn't read each post, but here are some thoughts based on owning a half dozen of them.

Never use the wooden grips that came, as they will cripple you with heavy loads. My fav grips were the Hogue grips that came with it, with the finger grooves buzzed off. I didn't like the cushy grips that came with the .500 as they don't slide, and grab your skin, drawing blood.

The Garrett Defender load was my preferred load. I shot a wounded mule deer up the butt at 42 yards and got complete penetration with it.

Bowen made custom front sights for mine and put conventional notches in the rear. My 329's regulated for the Garrett load required a taller front sight than mine regulated for heavy 44 special.

For cross country skiing, I had a shirt Nightguard that I got L frame Bantam grips on. No fun to shoot.

There was a time my wife, I and my friends carried these in AK, but we have gone to a semi auto with penetrator loads.

Thanks for your insight! I glad I'm not the only one who hates those finger groves and isn't afraid to make them go away. And I have not tried firing it with the factory Altmont grips and probably never will...with all the hard corners and edges on those things I'm sure I'd be bleeding after one or two rounds.

Thanks for the info about the Garrett loads. I was not aware of that company, but those things push a huge pill! The defender load doesn't sound too horrible, though, especially if you're getting that kind of penetration. Did you ever have any issues with leading in the cylinder, and if so how did you clean it? I'm hesitant to shoot cast through mine because I afraid to aggressively scrub it out like my steel-cylinder guns.

What semi-auto and load are you currently using, if you don't mind sharing?

Garrett Cartridges changed hands, but Randy Garrett made the Defender load for four inch 629, Mountain revolvers, and the 329. I have never worried about leading, but if you shoot enough to lead, I suspect you will have a lot more problems with your hands than your barrel.

My wife and I are active USPSA competitors, and thought it was odd to be carrying a revolver we shoot 100 rounds a year with, rather than the semi autos we shoot some tens of thousands with. I have done a fair amount of experimenting with semi auto field pistols and penetrator loads. In 45 Super I like the Underwood Lehigh load, in 10mm the Cutting Edge 190 grain, in 9mm the G9 124 grain and Underwood Lehigh 115+P load. In .40, the Underwood Lehigh 140 but I mean to get some of Lost River's penetrator load.

Now I want a 329PD, just so I can keep up with one-up the Joneses.

So to speak.

Very nice looking grips. I find myself wanting/desiring revolvers more than semi-auto guns now and your example is just the reason. Congrats.

quote:

My wife and I are active USPSA competitors, and thought it was odd to be carrying a revolver we shoot 100 rounds a year with, rather than the semi autos we shoot some tens of thousands with

Definitely some solid rationale there.

quote:

I have never worried about leading, but if you shoot enough to lead, I suspect you will have a lot more problems with your hands than your barrel.

I shoot a lot of lead, but you're probably right about the hand damage. I plan to download training ammo for this one, because I don't think my hands will tolerate a steady diet of this full-power stuff. I'll probably just have to stick to jacketed for this gun.

quote:

Very nice looking grips. I find myself wanting/desiring revolvers more than semi-auto guns now and your example is just the reason. Congrats.

The revolver shelf in my safe has been filling up a lot faster than the semi-auto shelf in recent years. Most of my EDC roles are filled with semi-autos, but there are a lot of specialty niches that revolvers are very practical for, and they're just fun.

quote:

Now I want a 329PD, just so I can one-up the Joneses.

So to speak.

One-upping with this gun is pretty much just seeing who has the toughest hands. It's been 2 days since my last range trip...I can almost make a fist again, lol.

I got rid of the finger grooves today. First I made a wooden sanding jig so I could keep both halves together in the proper orientation off the gun.



I did the rough work on the belt sander, got it close to where I wanted it, then finished it up by hand with some 400 grit and a sanding block. I took a little off the base as well, and also took down the lower portion of the backstrap so it's no longer proud to the frame. The sharp edges from the finger groves are gone, there's still enough of a recess at the top for good control but nothing preventing the fingers from coming together and pushing the hand further up on the backstrap.



A little BLO rub matched the finish back up nicely. I lost some of the stippling pattern, but I may revisit that later. Now I just need to go shoot it and see how it works under recoil.

I shot it again yesterday with the re-worked grips. I loaded up some .44Mag cases with a 240gr JSP and 7.5 Gr of Unique, which is right around the top of the .44 Special load range. It wasn't as bad as the magnums, but it still wasn't pleasant...the gun really snaps back into your hand under recoil, even when you stay tight into the backstrap. I'd compare specials in the 329 to hot magnums out of the 69.

I'm going to stop by the bike shop today and see if I can snag some old inner tubes to try and make some kind of grip sleeve for the top of the backstrap.

That 329PD is brutal. Recently sold a 629PC 2.5" barrel because it too was too much for these arthritic hands. And that snubbie is heavier than the 329PD!

Have a 629 5" that does everything I need a 44 Mag to do and doesn't cause hand trauma!

quote:

Originally posted by desertfoxxx:
That 329PD is brutal. Recently sold a 629PC 2.5" barrel because it too was too much for these arthritic hands. And that snubbie is heavier than the 329PD!

Have a 629 5" that does everything I need a 44 Mag to do and doesn't cause hand trauma!

I knew it was going to be bad, but I didn't realize quite how bad. I've shot my snubby 69 quite a bit and found it to be manageable. I didn't think the larger scandium gun could be that much worse, but I definitely underestimated it.

I stopped by the bike shop today, but he didn't have any old tubes on hand. He's going to set some aside for me and call me when he has a few. If I can't figure something out with those, I can always go back to the rubber grips. I just wish I could find something with a padded backstrap that doesn't extend down below the butt.

The 500 S&W grip is what you want .

quote:

Originally posted by Nick B:
The 500 S&W grip is what you want .

If they made a "boot grip" version of it that attached with a screw through the middle and was flush with the bottom of the frame, absolutely. But they don't.

Still trying out different solutions for this. I looked all over for a good shooting glove, but most of them pad the palm, not the web, which IMO is pretty pointless. I got my wife to sew a couple of layers of leather scrap over the web of one of my old Mechanix work gloves. It's not pretty, but it makes shooting this thing a lot more comfortable.

Well, after today I can no longer say that I've never had a problem with the S&W revolver internal locking system. I've always disliked it but have lived with it because I like the guns and it has never created an actual problem for me, until today.

My son and I went shooting with the buddy who we are going to Alaska with at the end of the month. He was trying to figure out what to bring so he brought a few guns, and I brought the 329PD. We were shooting a big steel silhouette at about 40 yards on the clock, and things were going really well. I was nailing the thing over and over again in double-action, and then my gun locked up.

I looked at it and the hammer was back, and the stupid flag was up. Somehow the gun managed to cock itself under recoil, and also partially engage the lock. I pushed the flag back down, which enabled me to pull the trigger and drop the hammer, which landed on an empty because the cylinder hadn't advanced. I was then able to fire normally and finish the cylinder.

Not the end of the world, and relatively simple to correct, but it's an utterly pointless feature that clearly does degrade the reliability of the gun. Yes, it likely would have malfunctioned anyway by "inertia-cocking", but having to disengage the lock created an extra step to correcting the problem that without it would have simply required another trigger pull. They definitely shouldn't have stuck it on such a harsh-recoiling, lightweight revolver that experiences such significant inertial forces. Guess I'll be buying one of those delete kits for this gun...dumb to have to spend $40 to make it what it should have been in the first place. Damn lawyers .

That sucks but it will work and look much better with the plug. I only own one Smith with the lock, 627 Pro and that was one of the first things to go. I will say I thought removing it and putting the plug in would be easy but I kind of had a devil of a time doing it. I hope it is easier than I made it look.

quote:

They definitely shouldn't have stuck it on such a harsh-recoiling, lightweight revolver that experiences such significant inertial forces.

Unfortunately this is what happens when the subcontracting company that makes the stupid internal lock eventually winds up owning the client gun company itself. Instantly, automatic "sales" of their lock system.