So, I have decided to stop fooling around and embrace the optic sighted pistol. I had a 320F that I was going to send out for a slide mill, but after reading a number of reviews on the Springfield Armory (politics aside) Echelon and its optic mount system, I sold the 320F and used the proceeds to fund an Echelon. Yesterday I ran 250 rounds of mixed 115/124 ball and Gold Dots through it with iron sights to test it out. Accurate and reliable. Trigger is on par with the 320 and Springfield claims their trigger is better, but IMHO, its a wash. I have settled on Holosun for the optic as they seem a good bang for the buck and I am leaning toward the solar models. So Holosun owners, give me the straight poop on your experiences with them. Durable? Easily sighted in? Co-Witness or not? Which model did you choose? Any mounting issues I should be aware of? Battery/solar run times?
My full plan is to work with the Echelon until I become fully competent (may take some time) with the dot and go Holosun on my 320 X Carry or pick up a G19 MOS.
Thanks in advance for your Holosun help!

As much as I detest Springfield, the early reviews on the Echelon have been very intriguing. Unfortunately we've not been able to get them in as the 10rd versions seem to be MIA, despite what our Springfield rep has previously promised.

As for Holosun: as a multi-unit user for a while now, I've been quite satisfied with the operational quality AND durability of their units, which now I own several both for handguns and rifles. Three years ago I never would've thunk this, but I'm a converted believer nowadays, at least until Beijing hits the magical implosion switch and they all go dead before the North Koreans come. However for the time being, they represent a great value and in fact have shown themselves to be MORE innovative than what other RDS makers have done up until now.

For handguns right now I like the SCS series as the best of the lot, since it mounts directly on the gun slide without need for an adaptor plate. The P320 version is a sealed box design where the emitter is protected from the elements; conversely the Glock MOS unit is like any other reflex site with the emitter exposed to the weather. The SCS allows the user to continue using their existing standard height iron sights for co-witnessing because of its relatively low rim height. As for the Echelon, I think the need for a SCS style RDS kind of goes away, since it already allows any 'regular'/previous design red dot to be mounted directly onto its deeper pre-cut slide. For that I'd recommend either the 507C (multiple reticles) or 407C (single dot only), depending on your preference. For myself my brain and eyes prefer and react better to the dot within circle reticle pattern that the 500 series Holosun units offer. YMMV.

The enclosed 509T is also a great choice IMHO; it's also a multi reticle design and protects the sighting emitter from the elements. Downside is that it's noticeably more expensive than the similar operating 507C, partially due to its titanium housing and the (marketing) fact that it's sealed from weather. It's encroaching into Type 2 RMR type of pricing, but still offers a larger viewport, solar reticle illumination, different reticle choices and a battery compartment that doesn't force the user to remove the optic from the gun in order to change. You'll have to go for the new Type 3 RMR to get most of these issues addressed, but solar power and reticle options beyond dot size won't be part of them.

That's about all I can offer. I'm a believer in RDS sights these days, although I'm still not sold on one being absolutely necessary for a defensive conceal carry weapon.

My Holosun experience is limited to an intense POST Red Dot Pistol instructors school. The sight performed well, zero issues. I used the 407C as I prefer a simple dot. I actually like the Holosun better than my trijicon. I'd buy another one if I needed another red dot sight.

quote:

Originally posted by mlazarus:
My Holosun experience is limited to an intense POST Red Dot Pistol instructors school. The sight performed well, zero issues. I used the 407C as I prefer a simple dot. I actually like the Holosun better than my trijicon. I'd buy another one if I needed another red dot sight.

I also prefer my 407C to my RMR. Trijicon claims that the tint to their glass is intentional and a "feature" but in my experience it is distracting and makes it harder to maintain a consistent target focus. Not having to remove the sight to change the batteries is another huge bonus.

Yooper, I'll be interested to hear about how everything mounts up to your Echelon once you pick an optic. The mounting system on that gun looks like it could potentially solve a lot of issues with the current market, and I'm curious how it actually performs in real life.

I picked up an Echelon yesterday. They really did do a nice job on the grip ergonomics. The palm swell/beaver tail is more narrow than on my M17 and it really promotes a firm purchase on the grip. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. Also pictured below for comparison is my 320X Compact.

As for Holosun, I've had good experiences with the micro 507K on my P365X and have mounted a few for several friends - all with positive feedback.

However, for the full-sized frame, I'd go with the SCS. I'm a big fan of sealed emitter optics and am considering putting an SCS on the Echelon or moving the one from my 320X to try. Co-witnessing should be no issue with the Echelon sights.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mdblanton,

So I love my Holosun. I have two in green (507 and 510) one red (507).

I love them. First, I love the green reticle, it REALLY works for me. They perfectly co-witness on the guns that I have with sites (Shadow Systems DR920P and MR920L for the pistols and I have the 510 on a 1301 tactical (with the rifled sights)), the red is on a Mark 4 that is RDO.

Anyway, my experience with them is great.

I have narrowed the Holosun choices (maybe) down to two:
407K
407C
The K model has the dot size I want (6MOA) but battery power only.
The C Model is solar but only has a 2 MOA dot.
I think I am better off with a bigger dot.
Is there an optimal overall dot size?
Thanks for your responses thus far!
BTW: Some reviewers had issues with the extended magazine losing its baseplate and dumping the ammo. The last 60 rounds I fired were with the extended magazine and prior to use, I banged the baseplate on the bench from multiple angles in an effort to get it to fail. Nope. Worked great.

I have an SCS with the multiple reticle choices that I really like.

I also have a 507c with the ACSS reticle and while I am not sold on the chevron I do like the ACSS concept very much for shooting from odd angles, bad grip, weak hand etc. (you know all the things that happen in the real world no matter how good you are at presenting and picking up your dot. )

I prefer green reticles.

All in all, I THINK, I am leaning towards sticking with irons primarily on pistols. I run optics just fine, have no issues with presentation or finding dots etc. I am just finding that I prefer more of a KISS system on my pistols. The dots absolutely provide a benefit especially at longer distances and transitions but as lazy as this sounds….I don’t like constantly checking the dot (I’ve had new batteries of all kinds poop the bed early in my life), cleaning the lenses off after I get oil on them from cleaning the gun etc. for me personally I just don’t think they provide near the same benefits that a rifle optic brings to the table. Do they bring benefits, absolutely!!! But are they a game changer??? Not for me personally. So I think my dots will stay relegated to fun vs. defensive use.

As for the all the HS Produkt arms I think they do a damn good job and have since the original HS2000. They not only seem to make good products they seem to do a good job at product improvement and evolution fairly quickly. Both the Hellcat series and Echelon seem like damn good competitive products from my handling of them, all politics aside.

Signed Luddite Curmudgeon The Third.

The main reason to adopt the dot is I am soon to be 68 and my eyes aren't getting any better.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
The main reason to adopt the dot is I am soon to be 68 and my eyes aren't getting any better.

Absolutely. I think you will be impressed with what you can do with one.

If you don’t already shoot both eyes open with irons start while waiting on the dot. It will make your transition easier IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by mdblanton:
The palm swell/beaver tail is more narrow than on my M17 and it really promotes a firm purchase on the grip.

I handled one at the LGS last week and agree. Impressive ergonomics. If I cared more about strikers and optics cuts, I would've bought it.

If I could just buy HS Produkt's I would, but I'm begrudgingly stuck giving a percentage to those jerks in the middle.

I have a 407C green on a hunting revolver and 3 507k's on pistols, none have had a problem. All 2 MOA dots. I shot a friend's 6 MOA and thought the dot was huge.

Now inbound to the Frozen North:
Holosun HS407CX2.
Euro Optic and Midway were close in price but Midway had free shipping.
After everyone's responses and looking at all different models, I think this one will be the best bang for the buck.
Thanks to all who chimed in!

There is one Holosun reddot that is not fully compatible with Echelon, despite SA claims to the contrary. I found that Holosun 507K X2 does not fit onto Echelon without screw modifications, even using correct pin set (set 3). Otherwise, Echelon is great with 507C. This is a very good gun overall. I was lucky to get one with small grip from the factory, and it really fits my hand very well. I like it enough to be waiting for Apex trigger kit to install.

509T on my Glock 45. Love it. Easy to zero and maintain.

RMR on my FNX Tactical. Slower for me to pick up the dot.

Next dot will be another Holosun.

I'm considering a Holosun although I have no experience with the brand. The Internet being the Internet of course, feedback/opinion ranges from "great optic" to "typical Chicom junk". The positive reviews seem to outweigh the negatives, though.

Have two holosun products and both seem solid. While I’ve had no issues I also don’t run them hard/torture test them etc. I have run the slide with them off a few hard surfaces and saw no issues but that is the extent of it.

In my opinion, they are not junk. I mounted the optic incorrectly twice and it flew 5 feet over my head to the concrete when I fired the gun. No damage at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
I'm considering a Holosun although I have no experience with the brand. The Internet being the Internet of course, feedback/opinion ranges from "great optic" to "typical Chicom junk". The positive reviews seem to outweigh the negatives, though.

I own a number of Holosun optics, which I use on CCW pistols, match guns, SBRs, and my designated "turkey" shotgun. They've always worked well for me and the only "issue" I've had was that my 507k was subject of a Holosun recall. Though it had not presented any problems, I sent the sight in for the update and had it back within about ten days. I wish I could find an American company that provided the variations (including green reticles) and high quality that I've experienced with Holosun.