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Member |
I've been researching the long extractor on the p series guns and have noticed that there are many complaints of failure to extracts where the shell casing is left in the barrel, resulting in the next round jamming behind it. The odd thing is, I've mostly seen this in reference to the p229 and I wonder why that is, as opposed to it happening equally as frequently in the p226 with the long extractor. Is there some design element in the p229 that makes it more prone to this malfunction? I own a p226 with the long extractor that hasn't had any issues with FTEs so far, but I did own a p229 made in 2018 that had numerous FTEs and required a trip back to sig. They changed the extractor/springs and it fixed the issue, but I sold that pistol off. I am thinking about picking up another p229 with the long extractor, but the FTE issue scares me a bit, and I wonder if there really is a design flaw to it. After all, they had used the short extractor successfully for years in this pistol. I have found hardly any evidence of people experiencing these problems with their legacy slides. I have two legacy slide 9mms with no issues whatsoever extracting. This is not to mention the (in my opinion) terrible aesthetics of the giant extractor on the side of the slide and the obnoxious magazine incompatibility with older p229 pistols. | ||
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Member |
If I remember correctly, they had the issues when they first came out with the long extractor because of poor quality metal in the MIM part. I bought a 299 with the long extractor in 2015 a put several hundred rounds through it without any problems. I think you'd be safe picking up another 229. | |||
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Member |
I know of a couple of customers who had theirs' break as well as one on a buddy's P229 40S&W, but all that was several years ago. Have not had a reoccurrence of any of that since. As for ejection issues, I've not heard of any customer problems with the long extractor models going back to its introduction. Doesn't mean something didn't happen, only that no customer that I'm aware of said anything about it to us. Only noise was about those early physical breakages, and again that was years ago. As for my op/ed: my main (and pretty much only) objection is that I think it looks fugly and as a result I've gone out of my way to avoid buying either a P226 or P229 that comes standard with one. -MG | |||
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Member |
From what I remember, the short extractor was made of machined tool steel, and then Sig went to MIM to save money. They had to lengthen the extractor as MIM was not as strong as machined bar stock. There were some initial failures with the new extractors, but the issue was fully resolved. Makes me appreciate all the short extractor Sigs I have. -c1steve | |||
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Member |
What about the current legacy slides, mk25, and the larger caliber p series? Those all use the short and dont seem to have the same problems as far as spring strength/extraction or durability. Wish they would have stuck to those. The newer ones just seem cheap in comparison. | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
I am not suspicious of them. There is just not enough that break to sustain that there is a design flaw. | |||
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Member |
From what I remember when the slide with the long external extractor first came out, there were reliability issues that were blamed on the extractor. The problem turned out to be with the slide itself being out of spec. What was wrong specifically, I don't recall but I believe it had to do with the fitment of the barrel. | |||
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Member |
I had reliability issues due to weak springs im guessing, possibly an out of spec extractor, as they replaced both. I have seem videos with the same issue and read of many others. You don’t really see that with the short ones. Mine was from 2018, so very recent. | |||
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Let's be careful out there |
I've shot the crap out of a 229 in .357 sig. no problems. | |||
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Member |
I was leery of the long extractor when I bought my Legion P226, but it has proven to work well, no issues at all. | |||
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Member |
My M11-A1 has the long extractor. While I prefer the short extractor from a visual reference, my M11-A1 has been faultless in 3659 rounds, so I don’t think it will be a problem. I also think the long extractor is easier to change if needed. A superior pilot is best defined as one who uses his superior judgment to avoid situations requiring the use of his superior skill. | |||
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Member |
recently acquired my 1st long extractor in the form of a new-to-me 229 Legion. It looks like it maybe had 1-mag though it prior to me. On my first 2 or 3 mages I had several failures-to-extract resulting in a double-feed. I pushed on for a total of about 400 rounds down the tube and apparently it smoothed out because after the first couple of mags there were no more stoppages. I'm suspicious though because the week before I got the Legion, I was with a friend who was shooting his late model (2016+?) 229 and he was also having the same issue. ----------------------------------- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb with a Sig X-Six protesting that decision." | |||
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Member |
I've seen more FTE's resulting in double feeds on long extractor sigs in both videos and on discussion boards than any other handgun, hence my suspicion. It's usually on p229's too. Therefore, they either can't get the spring tension consistently right or there is some design flaw. It's not just isolated to a specific batch or time period either, it has occurred throughout the years from what I have seen. I'd keep an eye on your legion, because if it has had multiple instances of slipping off of the case rim, it will likely happen again and will need a new extractor, springs, or both. Double feeds are one of the worst malfunctions you can get if you are relying on it to defend yourself as well. | |||
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Member |
The only issued duty pistol that I had that I absolutely hated was a Glock 22. I personally don't shoot Glocks very well snyway. These had the New York #2 trigger on them, whish took the trigger pull to about 11 or 12 lbs (if I remeber right). Thd guns ran 100%, but the trigger on those things sucked. | |||
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3° that never cooled |
capt. carl, Yes, have to admit I'm suspicious. Over many years, the short extractor has proven to be a reliable and robust design. I don't believe for a moment that SIG went to the long extractor because it results in a better product. It undoubtedly benefits SIG's bottom line. Then we have reports of extraction and/or breakage issues with the long extractor. And that long extractor just doesn't look right to me either.... NRA Life | |||
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Member |
I put another 300 rounds through it today, and I probably should mention I don't have any 229 mags - only 226 mags. Anyway - I had 2 mags that gave me one failure to extract each. I set those mags aside and ran another 20 mags without a stopage. I'm also playing with a hydraulic guide rod -- still messing with it. ----------------------------------- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb with a Sig X-Six protesting that decision." | |||
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Lead slingin' Parrot Head |
I've owned and shot a fair amount of classic P series SIGs, mostly P226s, although I don't have any experience shooting any of the long extractor guns. Over the years there have been countless extractor problems reported on all make and model of guns, including SIGs, including the original internal extractors, the short extractors, and the long extractors. There have been several reports of SIG short extractors breaking as well, although I will agree that the short extractor design should be considered reliable. Shoot enough rounds, shoot enough guns, shoot enough different types of ammo, talk to competitors, talk to instructors...soon or later you're going to see or experience various stoppages, and this includes extractor related problems. I'm not saying you are wrong because I simply don't have the experience with the long extractor guns that I do with the internal and short extractor SIGs. Early on in their release it did appear as though the long extractor SIGs experienced a stretch of reports of broken extractors or various extraction related problems, but those reports dwindled over time and it appeared as though SIG tweaked the design of the long extractor guns to make them more reliable. It could very well be that there is, indeed, a design issue with the long extractor SIGs, or it could be an issue with one production run of guns or one production run of extractors...or it could be ammo issues...or perhaps even shooter related issues...or, perhaps some combination of all of the above. Attributing stoppages to a systemic design failure based on a handful of internet reports in which the shooters either ignorantly or willfully omitted info necessary to accurately T/S the issue or even gather accurate data is...haphazard... and anecdotal at best. What is needed are cold hard data points before making any assessment. There really is no way to accurately gather info from every, or even many, long extractor SIG shooters in different parts of the world...however... ...A truly wise forum member would craft a properly thought-out properly constructed information gathering discussion thread...maybe even use some of the forum's features to do so. Lastly, at least the last time I checked, SIG Sauer still offers a life-time warranty on their guns, so IF there are problems the buyer has recourse to get it fixed. Yes, not ideal, but at least in theory, SIG should be expected to stand by their product. (I despise the new SIG Sauer website for a number of reasons, not the least of which is some info is difficult to find or search for...including what exactly their current warranty is). | |||
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Unflappable Enginerd |
Ummm, so not a factory setup? Was this before or after you had issues? So you acquired a "new-to-me 229 Legion", with no P229 magazines? __________________________________ NRA Benefactor I lost all my weapons in a boating, umm, accident. http://www.aufamily.com/forums/ | |||
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Member |
Yes. Standard capacity magazines can't be transferred in CA, unless you're LEO. I am not. I am however old enough to have a lot of pre-ban (again, a CA thing) 226 mags. The reason I bought the 229 without mags is a) I don't care about carrying it with flush mags and b) I plan to use whichever of the 226 mags I already own that run consistently in the 229. ----------------------------------- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb with a Sig X-Six protesting that decision." | |||
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Member |
----------------------------------- "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb with a Sig X-Six protesting that decision." | |||
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