I was at the range with my Beretta 92C, VP9 long slide, M&P 2.0, and CZ P-07 (don't worry the other pistols come in later). I have had issues with FTE during one previous range visit with the 92C but had initially blamed two mags which I marked. One was a 15 round compact Mec-gar and the other was a 17 round full size 92 mag with an x-grip.

Fast forward to my recent trip and the 92C again had several failures to extract which lead to double feeds. To answer the questions I know will come, with good reason, I have installed a factory "D" hammer spring and "G" (decock only) conversion kit on this pistol. The gun has maybe 500 rounds through it. Also, the ammo was factory new Blazer Brass which fired fine in all the other pistols I mentioned on the same day. I don't know the ammo for range trip #1, but given my history was either Blazer Brass or S&B 115 or 124gr. Also, this happened w/ 13 round & 15 round compact mags (including the marked one from the previous trip). Pistol was cleaned and lubricated prior to the range trip.

At first these FTE events appeared random then I realized that they occurred more often with one handed shooting. I then intentionally limp wristed by shooting one handed and allowing as much motion of the pistol during recoil as possible. That seemed to increase the frequency of FTE significantly. I repeated this exercise with the other pistols mentioned above and no issue. I don't have a history of limp wristing pistols (honestly can't think of any time I've ever done it as a grown man), including the 92A1 that is my bedside gun.

Is this common with the 92 compact? I've made the same changes (D spring, G conversion kit) to my 92A1 w/out any issues and I am mechanically inclined, but is it possible I screwed that up enough to cause these issues? I inspected the extractor and it doesn't appear to have any obvious issues, but I'm not a 92 platform expert. I don't remember this occurring prior to the mods, but I only put maybe 100-200 rounds through it prior to doing so.

I took a few pictures of two of the FTE events. This is only a small sub-set as I was able to pretty much force it to FTE at-will with the one-handed shooting described above. These two are actually from two handed shooting during drills...so I was holding on pretty tight.






I really like the pistol and want it to run right, so any ideas on what to look at or try?

Did these happen pre modifications?

I am not totally familiar with the G conversion but I know you are disassembling the “ears” and fitting a spring etc. could you have possibly done something here incorrectly that is causing drag on the system?

Just for giggles yank the extractor and clean it and it’s channel and inspect.

I can’t imagine it’s the D spring.

I have a bone stock 92 compact and it runs like a 92, reliable to a fault.

I guess my first thought with any pistol where modifications were made is did it run before? If so start rolling back updates if you will.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
Did these happen pre modifications?

I am not totally familiar with the G conversion but I know you are disassembling the “ears” and fitting a spring etc. could you have possibly done something here incorrectly that is causing drag on the system?

Just for giggles yank the extractor and clean it and it’s channel and inspect.

I can’t imagine it’s the D spring.

I have a bone stock 92 compact and it runs like a 92, reliable to a fault.

I guess my first thought with any pistol where modifications were made is did it run before? If so start rolling back updates if you will.

Thanks for the quick reply. To answer your question, yes this did run prior to the G conversion, but with limited roundcount. I don't remember specifically what I did, but my SOP with a new pistol is to inspect/clean/lubricate it then run 150-200 standard ball ammo through it just to make sure it's not DOA or has some other issue. I don't recall any issues during this period, but I may have thrown out a single FTE as ammo related or something. This pistol was mainly bought as a range toy and to fill in my collection as my first Beretta of any flavor, so I didn't really put it through the wringer.

Yes it is entirely possible I screwed something up during the G conversion. It's a royal pain in the arse to do and requires three or four hands and a sacrificial chicken if one is available. Having said that, I don't know what in there could have caused this issue. A FTF I could see since you monkey with the two part firing pin. Also, there doesn't appear to be any additional drag when manually cycling it...smooth like you'd expect from a 92, I dare say my smoothest cycling pistol along with the 92A1. I've also done this conversion with my 92A1 without any such issues. Doesn't mean I didn't mess up the compact, but I followed the same instructions and used the same parts and tools.

I'll try taking out the extractor and look at it closer. I'm real hesitant to convert it back to standard safety/decocker until I'm pretty sure that's the issue as it was such a pain to do and I'm worried I'll end up losing one of the little springs or plungers.

I agree with you...my first thought was "well what did I $%&% up now." I have seen a few conversations and videos that show the 92 platform as being a little sensitive to limp wristing and I didn't know if the compact was even more so. This is the only pistol with which I have this issue. Good to know that yours runs well. It's a good data point. There aren't many threads about real world use of the 92C, at least compared to the full size.

My money's on the extractor or extractor spring. May have gotten a bad one from the factory. Slim possibility of a chamber issue.

Can you see any marks on the casing from the extractor?

Don't worry about the G mod or D Spring, unlikely it has anything to do with the issue.

How very un-Beretta-like

Yeah, not normal behavior. did you pull the the firing pin block when doing the G-kit swap? (I do that as it makes it easier to rotated the FS safety to remove...also a good time to polish the sides for better DA work).

There are 9mm extractors and .40 extractors. It's possible that maybe you have the wrong one installed from the factory. They'll mostly work with the wrong caliber but sub-optimal.

It's possible your firing pin is not retracting properly and you're getting out of battery fire, which is causing the brass to expand and stick. The 92 design is pretty fool-proof.

It is quite clear, especially in the top photo, that you're having failures to extract, i.e., the case is not being pulled out of the chamber. Take a look at your extractor, taking the slide off if necessary, and see if it is broken or something.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: egregore,

Just out of curiosity, was it manufactured in Italy, Accokeek or Gallatin?

Edit....nevermind, looks like it's from Italy.

quote:

ow very un-Beretta-like

Agreed. I'd start with the extractor first.

100% I’d start with extractor.

Thanks all!

Yes, I was surprised by this as well, hence thinking I did something wrong (still may be the case). My 92A1 is crazy reliable.

I field stripped the pistol and took a look at the chamber. It looks clean. I did a quick caliper measurement and it's close enough that it's probably not an issue since I don't trust the cheap calipers or the user to make a 0.001" accurate measurement. I also dropped live rounds into the chamber and tipped the barrel upside down...every one that I tried easily fell out. Not even a hint of resistance.

I'll confirm, yes this is an Italian gun.

I did look at the extractor with the slide removed and I don't see anything obviously wrong. No chipping, bent extractor, not moving etc.

So I was smart enough to grab a piece of brass from a FTE and one that didn't...but not smart enough to label them. I think the bottom one is the FTE one. It does look like the extractor skipped over the lip. I'll order another extractor spring and maybe extractor and try that out.



Thanks for all the help.

Definitely order the spring because if you are anything like me you will inevitably launch it to Narnia and no matter how loud you scream the ritual profanities to return it, they rarely ever come home.

Seriously though it might very well just be some gunk in the spring channel or a misaligned spring in there. I have had a new gun have a little crud in there, possibly from production, cause some issues and a little “hosing out” and resetting the spring and it was all good.

Good luck. I imagine it will get worked out as in my experience I have never had an issue with a Beretta.

You’ll be amazed at the accumulation of build up in the extractor channel over time & it’s effects on spring tensioning. I’m with the chorus here, swap the extractor spring once you’ve removed the extractor..

Hey bub,

I've been having the exact same issue with my 92X Performance and working through it. It used to be more frequent, but I have taken the following steps in order:

- removed extractor spring & replaced with Wilson Combat 150% power spring
- replaced extractor with new OEM extractor, the old one had a bit of rounding on the hook compared to my carry Beretta 92
- polished the chamber & feed ramp with felt dremel wheel & metal polish

I am still having more than 1 in 100 rounds FTE with the same failure mode you show above. Last night I clipped 1.5 coils from my stock extractor spring and placed it in the extractor pocket under my Wilson 150% spring. I started with more & clipped off just a bit at a time until feeding felt good. The extractor now has a very strong grip on the case rim.

I will report back here if this has solved it, I should be shooting more in a few days.

EDIT TO ADD: I wanted to mention, with the exception of ~100 match reloads, I have only shot garbage Herters 9mm through this gun due to Rona. I haven't had any failures using the higher-quality match ammo 125gr BBI at 135 power factor, but 100 is a pretty small sample size... I've probably shot ~1500rd of Herters with about 100 MRBF, always the exact same failure mode.

Is the breech face clean? When chambering, the extractor doesn't jump over the case rim, but the case rim slides under it. The photo of the two cases appears to show that the extractor wasn't fully engaged on the case rim, but riding on it, meaning the extractor wouldn't have had full purchase.

Remove the slide, remove the barrel. Use an empty case, and try sliding the case upward in place, under the extractor, against the breech face. It should be held there securely, with slight resistance.

Berettas tend to be ultra reliable, and failures to extract are not normal.

The original post indicated that the pistol was cleaned and lubricated, but to be clear, the breech face was cleaned and free of grease, residue, or debris? Locking block and rails greased?

Extractor, extractor spring, bad ammunition, dirt under extractor or at breech face, or a rough or improper chamber are the causes for failures to extract in the Beretta.

If the pistol isn't properly lubricated and is cycling improperly due to internal friction, that may contribute.

Did the issues vary with the number of rounds in the magazine? Loaded magazine cause more issues than a nearly empty one? Problems more frequent with magazines other than compact factory mags?

quote:

Originally posted by mrmoneybags:
Hey bub,

I've been having the exact same issue with my 92X Performance and working through it. It used to be more frequent, but I have taken the following steps in order:

- removed extractor spring & replaced with Wilson Combat 150% power spring
- replaced extractor with new OEM extractor, the old one had a bit of rounding on the hook compared to my carry Beretta 92
- polished the chamber & feed ramp with felt dremel wheel & metal polish

I am still having more than 1 in 100 rounds FTE with the same failure mode you show above. Last night I clipped 1.5 coils from my stock extractor spring and placed it in the extractor pocket under my Wilson 150% spring. I started with more & clipped off just a bit at a time until feeding felt good. The extractor now has a very strong grip on the case rim.

I will report back here if this has solved it, I should be shooting more in a few days.

EDIT TO ADD: I wanted to mention, with the exception of ~100 match reloads, I have only shot garbage Herters 9mm through this gun due to Rona. I haven't had any failures using the higher-quality match ammo 125gr BBI at 135 power factor, but 100 is a pretty small sample size... I've probably shot ~1500rd of Herters with about 100 MRBF, always the exact same failure mode.

Just wanted to update, I shot ~250rd of Herters today without cleaning & did not have a malfunction. That puts the total current around 350rd without a failure. Extraction on GoPro footage is much more consistent than before as well. I attribute this to my boosted extractor spring.

I have a club match in a week and a state match in two weeks. I will update after those.

It sounds like you've fixed your challenge. I was going to ask if you had used ALL of the new parts in the G-conversion kit. I’ve converted all of my 92’s over to G and got lazy on a couple. I used to original plunger rods, thinking “how different can they be?” Well, they are indeed different. Pistols failed and the correction was made. If the issue comes back, maybe this is a possibility? If you used all new parts, just ignore the ramblings of a gun nut and be better off for it.
Thanks,
LaMont in AZ

Had a friend with a similar issue with the 92X Performance & found beretta had screwed up the depth of the extractor spring hole so the spring couldn’t supply adequate tension.

quote:

Originally posted by mrmoneybags:
Hey bub,

I've been having the exact same issue with my 92X Performance and working through it. It used to be more frequent, but I have taken the following steps in order:

- removed extractor spring & replaced with Wilson Combat 150% power spring
- replaced extractor with new OEM extractor, the old one had a bit of rounding on the hook compared to my carry Beretta 92
- polished the chamber & feed ramp with felt dremel wheel & metal polish

I am still having more than 1 in 100 rounds FTE with the same failure mode you show above. Last night I clipped 1.5 coils from my stock extractor spring and placed it in the extractor pocket under my Wilson 150% spring. I started with more & clipped off just a bit at a time until feeding felt good. The extractor now has a very strong grip on the case rim.

I will report back here if this has solved it, I should be shooting more in a few days.

EDIT TO ADD: I wanted to mention, with the exception of ~100 match reloads, I have only shot garbage Herters 9mm through this gun due to Rona. I haven't had any failures using the higher-quality match ammo 125gr BBI at 135 power factor, but 100 is a pretty small sample size... I've probably shot ~1500rd of Herters with about 100 MRBF, always the exact same failure mode.

quote:

Originally posted by CQB60:
Had a friend with a similar issue with the 92X Performance & found beretta had screwed up the depth of the extractor spring hole so the spring couldn’t supply adequate tension.

Yep, I have seen that from a few people on the Beretta forum, that’s why I decided to try stacking more spring in the pocket. Was going to look for an O-ring or a washer to stuff down in there but the cut spring was the correct diameter…