I know, I know, what kind of pussy needs help taming the obscene recoil of the mighty 9mm, right? But hear me out.

First of all, this is totally just my desire to tinker and experiment with something new, not a solution that I'd consider for a serious defensive purpose. Kind of a range toy "budget race gun" concept to see how soft and flat I can make a service-style handgun shoot on a budget.

I always thought the idea of a comped 9mm was kinda stupid until I shot the P365 XMacro and discovered that you really can feel the difference. I'm not a P365 guy and just don't find that gun to be a good fit for my hands, but it got the wheels turning. I recently got into an AXG grip module for my P320, and while I don't think it makes me shoot the gun any better it feels awesome in the hand and has revived an interest in the platform. I have some spare 320s in the collection, and a little bit of OT money burning a hole in my pocket, and that got me thinking even more.

My full-size 320 already shoots a lot flatter and softer than my compact/carry models, I assume as a function of the longer recoil assembly. I saw that Sig appears to be clearancing out a bunch of AXG Legion integrally-comped P320 slides with the non-enclosed RomeoX mounted. They can be had for about $600 with the dot, and I already have a 3.9" barrel that would fit so I'd just need a recoil spring assembly, bringing the total to under $700. I have heard some reports that the Sig factory mounting solution doesn't include recoil bosses and the RomeoX isn't an exact interference fit in the cut resulting in sheared mounting screws, which isn't a good thing.

The other option I've considered is getting a threaded barrel and an aftermarket comp for one of the 3.9" guns that I already have. This would be cheaper (probably around $250) and avoid any potential screw-shearing issues, but the solution is a bit less elegant than the factory slide with the integrated comp. It also would stick me with the compact recoil spring assembly, which as I noted above I'm assuming is responsible for the less than ideal recoil characteristics of the carry model compared to the full-size.

I know ammo selection is an issue as well, and most reviewers claim the most benefit of the comp is observed with +p or hot 115gr ammo. My go-to handload is a 135gr bullet, but I'm loading it over HS6 which burns relatively slowly, so in theory there ought to be enough gas left as the bullet leaves the barrel to take advantage of the comp.

Other options are to forget about the 320 and buy the threaded barrel and comp for my P226 that already shoots flatter than the 320s without one, or cheaper yet get a generic comp and throw it on my son's P09 that already has a threaded barrel and already shoots flatter than any other 9mm we own.

I've watched the youtube videos and read reviews, but I figured I'd throw the question out here to the forum and see what kind of feedback I get. What are your experiences with compensating any 9mm handgun? Did you have to mess with recoil springs, and if so how did you go about that? Has anybody played with the P320 Legion with the integrated comp and compared it to a non-compensated model, or a similar gun with an aftermarket comp? Any issues with optic screws shearing with the RomeoX? Is this even worth looking into or am I just geeking out and letting autistic curiosity get the better of me? Does the comp actually provide a tangible benefit or is it just marketing hype to take people's money?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 92fstech,

I know that compensators are a thing now. My only old fossil experience with any type of compensator was when I Mag-Na-Ported a 3 inch .357 round butt Smith revolver. Not a pleasant experience! This was in the days before low flash powders were in common use, unlike today. It did somewhat reduce muzzle rise but the trade off was a lot of blast and flash. I have no plans to adopt a compensator on a 9mm. You might try to locate a comped 320 to shoot to see if the juice is worth the squeeze.

Oh I completely agree. I've had a couple of Taurus revolvers with their crappy porting (basically a series of holes drilled straight up through the top of the barrel on either side of the front sight), and the muzzle blast was unbearable, especially on the .44. But I think a large part of the issue is dependent upon the caliber and the design of the comp/ports.

My buddy had a Smith 629 Stealth Hunter 6" .44 Mag...same barrel length as my Taurus .44. The first time I shot it I expected to feel the blast in the bridge of my nose like I used to with that Taurus, but that wasn't the case at all. The S&W ports were designed to push the blast out and up at the same time, so it really wasn't unpleasant at all.

On the comped P365 that I shot I really didn't notice any blast. I'm not sure if that was more due to the lower amount of gas from the 9mm chambering or the design of the comp ports, but I was impressed that there was a noticeable reduction in felt recoil (not extreme, but enough that you could definitely tell) without any obvious blast, at least when shooting outdoors.

Armory Craft really knows what they are doing with 320s and 365s
https://www.armorycraft.com/pr...rs-p320-p226-228-229

Have you shot one of those? How did it compare to a non-compensated gun?

I have a Herrington Arms comp on a M17 with a Wilson grip and Grey Guns trigger. It definitely shots softer than my AXG equipped P320. The compensated gun is a hoot to shoot. Not sure which comp I have as it was bought years ago but it has been 100% reliable.

quote:

Originally posted by SigLaw:
I have a Herrington Arms comp on a M17 with a Wilson grip and Grey Guns trigger. It definitely shots softer than my AXG equipped P320. The compensated gun is a hoot to shoot. Not sure which comp I have as it was bought years ago but it has been 100% reliable.

Thanks for the feedback, that's one I've been considering as well.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Have you shot one of those? How did it compare to a non-compensated gun?

I have not. I have never really felt the need to venture into compensators on pistols but all their other products have been excellent.

Well, I finally got all the pieces together to make this happen:

1. P320 FCU that I already had
2. AXG Grip Module that I picked up a couple of months ago and have really been enjoying
3 Streamlight TLR-1 off my P226 (mostly just for weight)
4. Armory Craft solid steel guide rod and spring kit (I'm using the 12lb with the comp)
5. No-name threaded barrel I got cheap from CDNN
6. Full-size slide I got in the classifieds and had milled by Maple Leaf
7. Holosun 507 Comp purchased from DaBigBR
8. Harrington Arms blem HC320 compensator

The slide just got back from Maple Leaf last night so I mounted the optic and stopped by the work range for a bit today to try it out. I don't know if I just got lucky or if Maple Leaf is just that good, but I didn't have to adjust anything...it was hitting to point of aim at 15 yards right out of the gate.

Recoil is incredibly soft and there is minimal muzzle rise. I tried some bill-drills and the dot never leaves the window. I can't say how much of that is the comp and how much is the extra weight and huge window of the 507 Comp, but it's noticeably more controllable than my non-compensated full-size P320.

My plan is to get out on my days off and really put this thing through some drills on the clock, do some hit factor scoring compared to the non-compensated gun, and see what difference it actually makes. The comp is a bit of a pain for cleaning and holsters, so there will have to be a quantifiable difference to make it worth keeping around.

Looks good!

My most recent experience with a comp/brake was with a Desert Eagle. The external muzzle brake is phenomenal. the ported barrels they sell now? Not so much.

I like how your P320 turned out. I also like to tinker with mine. Being from a box of old 2011 parts to a custom Glock frame for the price of the work done to it.

I'l have to give Maple Leaf a call when I need mine milled as well.

quote:

I'l have to give Maple Leaf a call when I need mine milled as well.

This is the second slide they've done for me. Both have been well done and within a reasonable time frame...I think I had this one back in under a month.

I did not have them refinish either slide as the P320 slides are stainless so I'm not too concerned about rust and didn't think it warranted the extra expense. I had the RMR off my other one a few months ago to change the battery and it still looks as clean under there as it did right after it got milled 4-5 years ago.

Got a chance to run the comped upper against a non-comped upper today at the range. I used the same lower with both slides to try and minimize variance as much as possible. I also don't have a good holster for the comped slide, so any drills that called for drawing from the holster were modified the low-ready.



The first was a bill-drill, 6 rounds onto a B8 from 7 yards. Anything outside the 8-ring counts as a zero. I shot this one three times each, totaled the score and divided by time to get hit factor. The final scores are average hit factors of the three runs. Higher numbers are better.

Compensated: 20.37
Un-Compensated: 20.07

The next drill was my version of the Rangemaster March drill of the month from this year. I made my own target because I don't have their targets, but the idea is the same. From six yards, three rounds into the big circle, two into the middle-sized circle, and one into the small circle. Repeat X3. Runs have to be clean to count, score is your time, so lower numbers are better.

Compensated: 3.71 + 3.78 + 3.76 = 11.25
Un-Compensated: 3.54 + 4.12 + 3.68 = 11.34

(Photo didn't take for some reason, but here's one from a few days ago to give you an idea of the target)



Then I ran the January drill of the month, again with my own modified target. Shooter starts at 5 yards and shoots two rounds in to the B8, slide lock reload, two more rounds into the B8 and one round into the post-it. Any rounds inside the B8 circles or on the post-it are 10 points. Anything outside the B8 but still on paper is -5, anything off paper is -10. This same course of fire is then repeated at 10 yards. Scores and times are added up, and total score is divided by total time to get hit factor. Higher numbers are better (I shot this one 3x each so the scores below are an average of three).

Compensated: 9.17
Non-Compensated: 8.58



Then I shot the plate rack at 15 yards. 6 8" plates, had to be a clean run to count. I ran this 3X with each gun and recorded the times. Final results are an average of the three runs for each gun. Lower numbers are better.

Compensated: 4.36
Un-Compensated: 4.61


Overall, the compensated gun scored slightly better, but not significantly so. Maybe enough to make a difference in a match for a super-high-end competitor, but probably not enough to matter in the real-world. And almost certainly not enough to matter at my level.

There are also some practical downsides. Holster compatibility is an issue, especially when I already have stuff that will work with a non-compensated gun. The comp also shot itself loose about halfway through the range session, even though I had loctited the crap out of it and let it set overnight.

I'm leaning towards ditching the comp and putting the factory barrel back in with the solid guide rod. Before I do that, if anybody has any other comparison drills you'd like me to try I'm definitely open to it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 92fstech,

The important observation here is that factory loaded 9mm ammo of any type or reasonable 9X19 handloads just don't have enough high pressure gas volume for properly working a compensator.

In USPSA Open Division today, most people run 9X19 cases, loaded with a very long OAL, and stuffed full of slow burning powder.
Brass availability is great, and most USPSA Open Division 9X19 competitors will only reload it once, and leave it laying on the ground at the range.
You do not want to be that clueless handloader picking up the fired brass from a 9X19 chambered Open Division pistol as it has been seriously stressed.

In times past, where performance at any cost was KING, USPSA Open Division pistols were commonly chambered in 38 Super, 38 Super Comp, 38 TJ, and 38 Lapua. (.38 Lapua is a rimless clone of .38 Super)
As most/all of these cartridges are somewhat considered specialty items, brass cost is high, unlike 9X19.
In all of the .38 Super variants, and 9X21, 9X23, there is just enough additional interior case volume for more slow burning powder which will then provide more gas volume for working a compensator.

This particular SVI IMM Open gun is chambered in .38 Lapua, and it's ammo is stuffed essentially full of Vihtavuori 3N38 powder. It's a compressed powder charge when seating projectiles.
It's so full, when indexing the shell plate in a progressive reloading press, great care must be taken as to not spill powder when indexing the shell plate.
The pistol is equipped with a whole bunch of "Popple" holes in the barrel, which vent gas upwards while the projectile is still engaged in the rifling, before exiting the muzzle and "working" the compensator. The compensator on the SVI IMM Open gun is titanium, and pressed onto the barrel muzzle. The operating pressures are so high, small rifle/small rifle magnum primers are mandatory.

You are a Midwest guy and familiar with the Indianapolis 500 racetrack and the vehicles they race there.
You have a Ford Fiesta with a hood scoop, (the P320 9X19 with compensator) and it performs like one.
The Indy 500 race cars are built strictly for performance, and cost is not factored into that performance equation (the Infinity IMM Open gun in .38 Lapua) and they both give you the performance that you paid for.

The Infinity IMM Open gun is frightfully expensive, as are the magazines, the brass, and the powder.
Just like with race cars, motorcycles, boats, airplanes, and even perhaps some women. If you wanna play the high performance game, you gotta pay!

It's too bad you aren't closer, we could take the Infinity IMM open gun out and shoot several hundred rounds at the range.

BTW, when I was a more frequent USPSA competitor, I drove occasionally from upstate NY to Springfield, MA to the Smith & Wesson Training Academy.
One of the local MA USPSA clubs had an arrangement with S&W to use the S&W Academy ranges for indoors USPSA matches during the winter.
They have several "square" traditional indoors ranges. The remaining ranges are underground ballistic test tunnels, concrete walls, floor, ceiling.
One of the stages at one particular match, was a simulated nighttime MA LEO vehicle traffic stop.

They set up one "swinger" target frame, with three brown cardboard USPSA targets "clocked" across it, one at 10, one at noon, and one at 2. Distance was perhaps five yards.
You did the load & make ready, loaded your pistol and then holstered it.
They handed you a rope, and told you to pull the rope at the sound of the start signal buzzer. Pulling the rope activated the swinging target.

Then the underground ballistic test tunnel went pitch black, they literally turned off all the lights.
Then an all blue lights police vehicle light bar with rotating/flashing lights turned on behind the shooter.
At the sound of the start buzzer, you pulled the rope with your non dominate hand, and drew your pistol with the other.
Two rounds on each of the three targets, mandatory reload, two more on each target, another mandatory reload, and two more again on each target. 18 rounds in total. All while on the clock.

When a competitor finishes a USPSA stage, the Range Officer is supposed to be directly behind the shooter/strong side, and say "If you are finished, unload and show clear" but I didn't hear that.
I stood there with muzzle downrange and waited for perhaps 15 to 20 seconds and still didn't hear the Range Officer speaking.
I turned my head, and he was back behind me by about 10 yards. When he saw my head turn, he walked up behind me and issued the range commands for unloading, showing clear, dropping the hammer, and holster.
When that was finished, we removed hearing protection, and he told me he thought my SVI IMM Open gun had blown up. The high pressure upwards directed expanding powder gasses had knocked loose paint
chunks and loose concrete material off the ceiling of the concrete roof in the ballistic test tunnel, and the Range Officer got showered with debris. Seven to eight feet ceiling height.

I assured the Range Officer that my SVI IMM Open gun had not blown up, and he told me that was the loudest gun he had ever heard in his life.

DSC00737 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

DSC00734 by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

quote:

You are a Midwest guy and familiar with the Indianapolis 500 racetrack and the vehicles they race there.
You have a Ford Fiesta with a hood scoop, (the P320 9X19 with compensator) and it performs like one.
The Indy 500 race cars are built strictly for performance, and cost is not factored into that performance equation (the Infinity IMM Open gun in .38 Lapua) and they both give you the performance that you paid for.

Thanks for the well thought out and detailed observations. That's an apt description, and having played with this thing now I tend to agree. There's just not enough ass in this cartridge for the comp to make a meaningful difference, and I'm not willing to juice my handloads up to a level that might do that, especially in this platform. I'll probably mess around with it a little more and then send the comp and barrel down the road to somebody else who wants to play.