quote:

Originally posted by Micropterus:
There's no reason you couldn't put an Eotech on a handgun. It's just isn't practical.

It's been done.

I know. I tried one on a Desert Eagle .50AE. I also put an Aimpoint Pro on the same pistol. They worked. Like shooting a cinder block, but it can be done.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

If huge windows helped one would think we would see 4x4" windows in competitions and we don't.

Our best cross-section view of what happens in competition is USPSA Nationals equipment surveys. Even when there weren't too many good choices, RMRs held no more than 3% of that sample share. In last year's survey RMR is not even listed. Roughly 65% of those optics were large screens like SROs, R3Max, or DPP, followed by other Romeos and Vortexes. If there was a technically feasible way to put a 4x4 screen on gaming guns, people would've used 4x4s.

Everyone's different and everyone's got their own skills so I wouldn't argue what's best. I'd only say that for me there's a narrow scope of shooting tasks were RMRs can keep up with wide screes and much wider range of shooting tasks where large screens win without a doubt. Forgiveness to less optimal index, in general, or in constrained positions, or on the move, seeing more of a target behind the dot, dot returning into the visual field sooner or sometimes not even leaving the screen of bigger optics are the things that I've noticed.

Certainly what works best in competition is relevant in some ways but not often in others. Everything is ultimately a tradeoff. So in USPSA carry optics (which is probably the category that matters most in this discussion) the leading (by far) optic was the SRO. I have no issue with that per se. But I can say that its far too fragile at this point in its lifecycle IMO to depend on for an actual carry gun. And the shape is problematic. Same for many of the other optics that had a share of the results.
For fun maybe over the weekend I'm going to see if I can measure the actual angle difference I can see the dot of several different optics and see how much it matters.

You are just saying some goofy stuff. You won’t accept that a larger window gives you more margin for error. Then you tell us an SRO is too fragile for USPSA. That’s nonsense. If you are breaking an optic in USPSA I can’t imagine how. Dropping a gun in USPSA means you need to rethink how you do things.

If your argument is that the SRO is too fragile for rough use and being dropped I don’t think many people would argue with you. Including me. Yet you seem to be saying your argument is bigger, clearer glass is somehow less beneficial. Your experiment that you about to test is kind of silly. Everyone but you already knows the answer. You will see the dot at further extremes from center with a bigger window. It’s really not rocket science. With practice and repetition will the smaller windows work better as you get better? Yes of course they will and jljones gave his own personal experience to that point. I also suspect if they made an SRO sized window on an RMR that met the necessary bar of toughness it would become the end all be all. How many times have you read and personally witnessed that one of the huge advantages of dots is that if you can see the dot you can hit the target, even if you aren’t classically aligned with the sights. A bigger window just extends all the edges. This is a case of overthinking.

They figure out a way to make the SRO more “duty” tough and it would be game over. I suppose concealed carry guys would still look for smaller but I bet no cop ever would balk at a RMR toughness level SRO.

I literally don’t know anyone (I’m sure they are out there) that outside of ruggedness don’t prefer the SRO to almost every other sight. Yes, it’s not duty friendly in its current guise but the glass is big, it’s clear, battery life is excellent, and the buttonology makes sense. Nothing else on the market can match it. Except if you drop it. That’s the hurdle Trijicon has to figure out. Maybe they can maybe they can’t.

I own RMR, SRO, Deltapoint and Deltapoint Pro, and C more. Oh yea some Burris thingy that is huge but works great if you don’t mind a toilet paper roll on your gun. Lol. The SRO is the best overall, except for toughness.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pedropcola,

I don't have an SRO. I understand they aren't as robustly built as the RMR. But what makes it unsuitable for a carry gun? It's built for competition and many comp guns are going to see far harder use than most carry guns. I can't imagine they are less robust than some of the non-RMR RDSs I've seen on some carry guns - Fast Fires, Holosuns, Deltapoints, etc. I understand some duty weapons get dropped, banged around, and such. But how typical are the sort of impacts that would break an SRO?

I have a dual illuminated RMR on my G17 and the more I use it the more I like it and am glad I went with it over a true red dot. But I do find myself wishing for a bigger window. Compared to Fast Fires I've used in the past, there is a lot of beef around the RMR glass and the RMRs window seems really small.

Mainly the examples of dropping it and them breaking. I personally think there is a difference between military grade, police grade, and civilian grade that most would tend to agree on. For civilians I think it would be fine. Odds are you never even pull the gun, ever. Odds that you pull it and break the optic even lower. So in my opinion, I would take the risk of breakage as a civilian carrier because I think that risk is ridiculously small.

Deltapoint Pro has reinforced metal frame. Still not RMR toughness but much bigger clearer glass. It has wonky buttons though. 2 second hold to reverse direction of +/- . Everybody else just uses an up and down button which makes sense.

I was not going to use one until I watched Sam Spade (a Mod on Glock Talk) who is a AZ Detective. He is a close friend andtaugh me to use the Suarez technique. Oh I Know Gabe has done some funny things but he has the RMR down. I've been carrying a G 17 with RMR for a year and will soon be getting my HK VP9 with the new set up. and will decide which 320 I will set up by December. I have the Green Dot RMR because of an eye injury that left me with an incurable disease. Service connected so I get free treatment, The green dot is a lifesaver for me.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
literally the size of the window means nothing. really. you are not looking through it like its a magnified optic. you can like or not certain features of every option.But once you are chasing the dot the issues are on you for technique.

Maybe that's true once a person truly has the red dot down pat, but until then, a larger window means more error correction. With a larger window, the area in which to "find" the dot on an imperfect presentation becomes longer. The area in which the dot can be tracked through recoil becomes larger. I am comfortable with RMRs, DPPs, 507Cs, 509Ts, and 507Ks, but it has taken a long time to get there. I absolutely see why "big glass" like the DPP, SRO, Romeo 3XL and Romeo 3 Max have a following.

My preferred optics remain the RMR and 509T, however.