I’ve finally decided to take the plunge and try a dot and am hoping I can get some help from the brain trust. I am a former LEO with over 30 years of significant handgun experience, including 10 years as an instructor and 5 on a tactical team, albeit years ago. I remain current and I have not left the house unarmed for at least 10 years, probably much longer. I have zero handgun dot experience, but have been using one on my AR forever. I have a police chief buddy who is going to let me go through his department’s optic crossover class because I have retired creds and qualify under HR218. I am prepared to train as necessary to get competent before carrying a dot equipped pistol.

While I appreciate everyone has preferences on pistol platforms, I am limiting my choices to G43x mos and HK CC9. These are my two carry guns depending on weather and clothing and have high confidence in both. I will keep both u til I am confident a dot is right for me so I will be adding an additional one of these to the stable. The price difference between them is not a factor, although I can get Blue Label pricing on the Glock. I am not interested in any other platforms.

I’ve decided to try an EPS Carry with the multi-reticle to test drive, but am not firmly committed to the dot like I am the pistol(s). Since I am new to pistol dots, I don’t yet know whether I will prefer the dot only or the circle dot, so I figure this will give me the best of both worlds u til I get some reps in. After playing with several at my LGS, I know I don’t want a 6 moa dot and prefer the 2 or 3 moa. Is there any others that I should be considering?

My question is whether the plate system on the Glock (assuming a quality metal plate) or direct mount on the CC9 is best. I think I have read everything I can on the interwebz and am looking for the collective guidance of you fine folks to help me decide. This includes recommendations on a quality Glock plate. Right now, it seems like a toss up with no clear winner. I shoot both platforms equally well with irons, so “pick the one you shoot best’ is not a factor. I am truly at a loss to decide but don’t want to get one of each to try not do I have access to try either of them before buying.

Can you guys help an old guy out? I want to lean some new tricks.

Thanks in advance,

1-I don't think you will have any problems transitioning as based on your experience your fundamentals are likely WAAAAYYY better then mine and I had no issues. Just remember you are focusing on the target not "front sight", not the "dot" but the target. I've always shot both eyes open and more or less target focused even with irons so that may have ultimately helped make going back and forth between dots and irons more or less a non issue for me.

2-Holosun, in my experience, makes a good product. I wish they were Western in manufacture but that aside they make a solid product and I think the EPS is a great dot, especially for normal use. If you plan on fast roping out of helicopters or going back to active duty and rolling on the ground with suspects then you might want to go Trijicon or Aimpoint. One caveat I would suggest is to purchase aftermarket properly hardened mounting screws from somebody like Battlewerx or the like. Holosun screws have been known to fail but it some of those cases I think it might be because folks get a little exuberant on tightening them down. I've generally used around 15ish inch pounds and blue loctite with good effect.

3-I have used DPP plates on my Glocks and had good luck with them. That said I am a normal low speed, high drag kinda guy so my carry guns are not abused beyond the normal bumps against the occasional door frame or car etc.

4-I just sold my CC9 because, while I shot it well, it was just a hair too thin for me to index it properly/naturally. I find the Glocks to be better in this regard for me. That said the direct mounting solution is ALWAYS the better solution. Less stuff to go wrong.

5-Make sure you have some form of back up iron sights as well as do some practice dot off/occluded etc. just to prepare for failure. I haven't had a dot fail on me yet but again, low speed, high drag and round counts spread over many guns.

6-Just understand that pistol dots are like any other tool, they come with a host of advantages and disadvantages and you need to weigh them out for you personally. I think they ultimately provide more pro's then con's IMO, again grain of salt my opinion doesn't hold a ton of weight. I do not, however, think they provide near the paradigm shift optics on rifles do.

Ultimately have fun with it. If you go in with an open mind at the very least you will enjoy learning a new tool/toy and at best you will gain some capability.

One last thing that comes to mind is make sure you make some witness marks on your mounting screws/optic so you can visually identify if it is coming loose. (paint pen, knife scrape, even a lead pencil works fairly well)

There are folks on this forum FAR FAR more experienced and skilled then I and I would expect them to be along shortly. There is a lot of good advice to be had.

One more thing. Don't dismiss 6 MOA dots out of hand. I found that I prefer 6 MOA on a pistol. It's not that much bigger then 2-3 MOA in practice and cleaner and easier to pick up for me. I also find green easier to pick up then read but......that is almost a religious level question for dot folks.

Chris,

Thank you very much for the time to provide so much detail! I would have never thought of some of that, like the aftermarket screws and reconsidering the 6moa. All I have done is dry fire with them. There is zero chance of me getting back in the action, I too am very much low speed, high drag at this stage.

Thank you again for your time and the excellent advice!

Dave

What CSlinger said!

I have the 43x and the Holosun EPS, Shield magazines. It’s my off duty probably 90% of the time.
Love the thing! Durable as all hell. I can’t count how many times I’ve dropped it off the shelf in my locker at work, banged it around doing undercover stuff… Holds a zero!
You have the option of dot - dot in circle - circle. Red, yellow, green.
Whatever works best for you for color and reticle.
Personally, I prefer the Glock. It just works for me better.
With the Shield Mags, there’s the 15 and 20 round options. I have a handful of them, and they’ve worked flawlessly.

I can’t remember what aftermarket plate and screws I used- maybe Battleworx? So far it’s working great.

You’ll be fine on the transition. You’ve been toting around a gun on your hip for 30+ years, you know what you’re doing.
I’ve found that if you have a solid foundation, especially in bringing the gun sights / sight plain to your eye level, you’ll be fine. The faster and more consistent you can acquire your iron sights, you’ll be fine in picking up the red dot. Given your background, you’re fine.

Let’s talk about, well.. “older eyes”.
Im secure in the fact that I need reading glasses. That front sight is a fuzzy blob without glasses on. That red (green/yellow as well) dot is an absolute game changer! Nice and clean, crisp dot without glasses.

CPDSig,

Thank you for your response and vote for the 43x. Im test driving the new factory 15 rounders but never went down the Shield mags route. Frankly, my old eyes are one of the reasons I decided to take the plunge. It’s tough getting old, but beats the alternative!

Thanks again!

quote:

Im test driving the new factory 15 rounders

I have a few and they have all been 100% for me. I really like the “Glock-Gar’s” in the 48/43x.

I took a different approach to learning how to shoot red dots. Ruger used to offer a 22/45 with an RMSc mount on the top rib. I mounted a Holosun 407c on it and used it for my training in getting used to red dots. Training with a .22 with a dot on it was far less expensive than training with a 10mm which was the next gun I planned on putting a dot on.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

Im test driving the new factory 15 rounders

I have a few and they have all been 100% for me. I really like the “Glock-Gar’s” in the 48/43x.

Mine have been 100% also.
Thanks again!

quote:

Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
I took a different approach to learning how to shoot red dots. Ruger used to offer a 22/45 with an RMSc mount on the top rib. I mounted a Holosun 407c on it and used it for my training in getting used to red dots. Training with a .22 with a dot on it was far less expensive than training with a 10mm which was the next gun I planned on putting a dot on.

Interesting take and certainly more cost effective! Maybe I go with my original plan AND a .22 with dot.

quote:

Originally posted by JDSigManiac:
CPDSig,

Thank you for your response and vote for the 43x. Im test driving the new factory 15 rounders but never went down the Shield mags route. Frankly, my old eyes are one of the reasons I decided to take the plunge. It’s tough getting old, but beats the alternative!

Thanks again!

No problem.
As far as the Shield Mags-
Glock’s 15 round ones weren’t available yet. I heard about Shield here and gave them a try. I got the 3 pack, then another 3 pack… then was gifted 3 15 round and two 20 round ones.
At this point, I’m too far in to go back!
Paying attention to the Infamous “You will buy a Glock” thread, the Glock 15 round magazines seem to work like a charm, and the only problem is not fitting exactly flush. Toss a small mag well on it if that gap bothers you, I guess.

Yep, my experience as well. I have a relatively low profile mag well and the 15 rounders fit and look great.

The Holosun EPS has a solid reputation, and I've been happy with all of my Holosun optics. My big hangup when looking at optics for my 43x was that I don't like plates, so I needed something with a native RMSc footprint. I ended up with an Osight SE which I've been carrying for about 8 months now and am very happy with. This is my beater gun, and I'm not nice to it. I've probably got over 3k rounds through it at this point with no issues, using the factory 10 rounders (it's already a bit longer in the grip than I'd like, so I haven't been able to bring myself to go to the 15s), and it's been excellent.

One thing to consider if you want to go with the EPS and want to avoid a plate is that Glock did make a version of the 43x with a footprint that will accept a direct Holosun K optic. The downside is that I think it was only available in brown, although that may have changed since almost a year ago when I last looked into it.

If aged astigmatism please consider the holosun gold dot. Much better clarity for me.

The best I can tell you is to get a thorough eye exam by an ophthalmologist before you invest heavily. I went with red dots on several pistols (mostly recreational). My shooting improved. I went for an eye exam and found out I had cataracts. After surgery, my vision improved to 20/20 (better than it had ever been.) The red dots started looking fuzzy. I went back to iron sights, and can shoot very well with them. I'm keeping one gun, a 320 AXG, equipped with the dot. The rest are back to irons.

quote:

Originally posted by 2000Z-71:
-snipped- Training with a .22 with a dot on it was far less expensive than training with a 10mm which was the next gun I planned on putting a dot on.

The first pistol I put a dot on is my xdm-elite compact in 10mm since it was the only one I had at the time that was optics ready. I've since purchased an optics slide for my m&p 2.0 9mm, which is much more affordable.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
The Holosun EPS has a solid reputation, and I've been happy with all of my Holosun optics. My big hangup when looking at optics for my 43x was that I don't like plates, so I needed something with a native RMSc footprint. I ended up with an Osight SE which I've been carrying for about 8 months now and am very happy with. This is my beater gun, and I'm not nice to it. I've probably got over 3k rounds through it at this point with no issues, using the factory 10 rounders (it's already a bit longer in the grip than I'd like, so I haven't been able to bring myself to go to the 15s), and it's been excellent.

One thing to consider if you want to go with the EPS and want to avoid a plate is that Glock did make a version of the 43x with a footprint that will accept a direct Holosun K optic. The downside is that I think it was only available in brown, although that may have changed since almost a year ago when I last looked into it.

I saw that. It looks like a mini 19x. I will look into the Osight. Thanks!

In addition to what has already been mentioned, under certain angles of the Sun (or bright enough artificial lights, I suppose) interior reflections can cause false dots to appear. Which is why for serious usage, get a circle dot or chevron “dot” so you know you are using the right aiming dot. And don’t forget to clean the lens(es) on a regular basis.

My advice is don’t underestimate the training time required to transition from iron sights to an optic. I was over 60 when I started the transition. It took a bunch or reps to retrain my presentation to where I was seeing the red dot or circle dot cleanly. On the good news side, once you make the transition I have found better accuracy overall and faster follow ups.

One other thing to consider is the Holosuns with the solar panels that have auto brightness adjustments. This is a very handy thing to have on a carry gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Abn556:
My advice is don’t underestimate the training time required to transition from iron sights to an optic. I was over 60 when I started the transition. It took a bunch or reps to retrain my presentation to where I was seeing the red dot or circle dot cleanly. On the good news side, once you make the transition I have found better accuracy overall and faster follow ups.

One other thing to consider is the Holosuns with the solar panels that have auto brightness adjustments. This is a very handy thing to have on a carry gun.

Thanks! Very good points.